Loosing Jing

[Leo]

I have a question I've been wanting to ask for some time, and I'm hoping to get as many opinions as I can. Yoda touched on it in the recent thread on the finger lock:

 

How much jing is lost through ejaculation, and roughly what is the effect on cultivation?

 

I know that there are plenty of opinions in the old Chinese mecidal texts how often a man can/should ejaculate for health reasons at various ages/states of health. But I am interested in what you all think specifically in regards to cultivation. In Yoda's post, he mentions someone's opinion that you can still make progress ejaculating every 1-2 weeks. What are people's experiences?

 

Also, as I have mentioned before I am pretty into Bill Bodri's stuff right now. He seems to say that a cultivator should never ejaculate. Am I getting that right? And what if, for instance, someone cultivates for 5 years and then accidently looses it? Or maybe has to give a sperm sample for some medical reason, or whatever. Do they loose the whole 5 years? Could that really be? I know you're supposed to be refining jing into chi at some point, but what if this guy is just a mediocre cultivator, and he hasn't been able to do that yet. Does he loose it all? Maybe some of you all who are more familiar with Bill's stuff know what he might say in that case.

[sunshine]

I think the most important part is listening to your own body. The more you practice the more you will get a feeling of how intensive the loss is to you & how often you can do it and still be save...

 

you sure enough will not loose 5 years of cultivation if you ejaculate ones or even more...

 

the thing is & that is important: during certain stages of your pratice you will not want to loose anything in order to make progress...

 

but even regarding the 100 days of needing to safe Jing the opinions of different "masters" differ...

 

as soon as you master ejac control you will not have any trouble with that question any longer, as then you will have mastered it...

 

there is the discussion if vasectomy is good or not as well, and some say that it is absolutely detrimental to Spiritual cultivation while others feel the opposite...

 

at the end of the day it is up to you to decide. While vasectomy usually is a step done once the question of ejaculating or not you can decide at each moment of your life over and over again...

 

Regarding Bodri I don't know. Anybody ever heard the Buddha practicing retention?

 

just my thoughts

 

Harry

PS: it is good to consider essence nourishing herbs whatever you do, if you ask me

[Cameron]

I think it is important to chi cultivation but not necissarily shen cultivation.

 

like that guy Sean invited here that ejacuates all over the place and says he is basically enlightened(or whatever )

 

Like yoda said doing zhan zhuang and ejaculating regulalry is like putting your foot on the accelorator and brake at the same time..pretty pointless.

 

The method I read in a Yoga book many years ago which is probably pretty true for the general Qigong/Alchemy/whatever practitioner is..

 

Take your age..multiply it by two..then divide that number by ten.

 

So if your 40..40x2=80..80/10 is 8.

 

A 40 year old guy should wait 8 days before ejaculating.

 

It's a general guideline but actually works out to be the same as ancient chinese physicians.

[Trunk]

Also, as I have mentioned before I am pretty into Bill Bodri's stuff right now. He seems to say that a cultivator should never ejaculate.

That's very advanced, "advanced jing gong". And can be very progressive, if you're at that level of cultivation.

If you don't have it all worked out right, long term retention causes trouble - jams up the works, at various levels.

 

Take your age..multiply it by two..then divide that number by ten.

So if your 40..40x2=80..80/10 is 8.

A 40 year old guy should wait 8 days before ejaculating.

That's a more regular level. imo, someone should become very familiar with simple "healthy jing gong", promoting harmony and basic health, before they try retention. Make all of your tissues supple & free from obstruction, learn to blend and harmonize your energies, learn to stabalize into your centers. That should keep you busy for a few decades.

[Cameron]

That's very advanced, "advanced jing gong".    And can be very progressive, if you're at that level of cultivation.

If you don't have it all worked out right, long term retention causes trouble - jams up the works, at various levels.

 

Take your age..multiply it by two..then divide that number by ten.

So if your 40..40x2=80..80/10 is 8.

A 40 year old guy should wait 8 days before ejaculating.

That's a more regular level. imo, someone should become very familiar with simple "healthy jing gong", promoting harmony and basic health, before they try retention. Make all of your tissues supple & free from obstruction, learn to blend and harmonize your energies, learn to stabalize into your centers. That should keep you busy for a few decades.

7822[/snapback]

 

Yup

[Yoda]

One of the most important points is not to blow your load shortly after energy practice like standing or mco. (simple sitting practice shouldn't be a problem, imo). Wait a few hours for the energy to settle down. Several teachers I've read emphasize this point and it is very true in my experience. It feels great in the moment, but it's not worth it in the long run.

 

Back off retention if it causing any disturbances in the force.

 

Probably the best route is to shoot once every X days and slowly, gradually increase that period until you find the optimal setting for your current situation.

 

For me, it's an energy level vs sanity equation. I think learning retention is worth enduring some discomfort, but not to an extreme degree.

 

I like Bodri, but I think I've found his replacement in the AYP dude. I'll review his book when I get it. He's a little more chilled out than Bodri and he's not fighting taoism the way Bodri does either.

 

My personal practice discussion will report on my new modified recipe for long term retention.

 

-Yoda

[sean]

IMHO it's not as simple as a scientific calculation of X amount of energy and "spiritual progress" lost per Y grams of semen. I think there is likely a somewhat measurable physiological loss of nutrition, plus the energy your body has to go back into recooperating this loss. An article in the illustrious, peer-reviewed Vice magazine () claims that:

One ejaculation contains the same amount of proteins, vitamins, minerals and amino acids as eight ounces of steak, ten eggs, six oranges and two lemons.

 

In my view, the subjective experience of energy loss from ejaculation, for example, feeling low afterwards, depressed, tired, weak, wimpy, not as "whole" or integrated, etc., has a lot to do with the context of the ejaculation. If I am just rubbing one out to trashy porn in the minute before taking off for work, there is a huge felt drain and it carries over into the next few days. If, on the other hand, the ejaculation is in the context of an hour of deep, sensual lovemaking with Lezlie, where I allowed my body to be very relaxed, particularly my abdominal, psoas, anal ... all of the muscles in my LTT ... and really sank into the experience of Blissful union, not focused on ejaculating as a goal at all, in fact being perfectly ok with stopping and not ejaculating, but let's say this time ejaculation slowly, very very slowly, arises, and I keep relaxing the muscles in my anus, legs, and abdomen that are trying to twitch and tense and clamp to bring it on faster ... eventually though, the orgasm/ejaculation just roars forth spontaneously and outside my will ... ok, let me tell you something, I am NOT tired after this. I am not distracted from my desire from Freedom. I am not apathetic toward my cultivation practice. Quite the opposite. I am one happy camper with zero noticeable side effects. Actually, if anything I notice a more energized meditation practice.

 

My point of contention with the jing-retention issue is really based around the distinction between waste and investment. Obviously the original intention of ejaculation was for it to be an investment into the creation of a new offspring. A child that would ideally eventually work building, maintaining, protecting and furthering the family. So the Judeo-Christian and also apparently the Taoist views are that non-procreative ejaculation is always a net loss in some way. But based on my direct experience, and also my intuitions, I'm not convinced at all that the only way to invest your seed (outside of procreation) is to work toward an ideal of preventing it's escape from your body. Just my two cents.

 

Sean.

[hagar]