what is "red Phoenix"

[joeblast]

I do.

 

I am trying, I find it hard to though when something addressing me is left hanging.

 

I can sympathize with that

[Cameron]

I think you guys are all great, but perhaps too serious regarding Kunlun and Max.

 

My last word on all of this. If you want a serious path I don't think Kunlun or Max is your bag.

 

Plenty of serious paths out there to choose from. Pick one you like.

 

Later

[Owledge]

My last word on all of this.

Hahahahahahaha! Sorry, couldn't help it.

 

Hope you can muster the self-discipline.

[Aetherous]

If you want a serious path I don't think Kunlun or Max is your bag.

 

I consider it to be a serious alchemical path...of course being a serious person in the negative sense (like a grumpy faced know it all who points fingers at everyone but themselves) isn't really helpful. But the practices should alleviate that to a degree...moreso if the person realizes how better off they would be if they changed.

[Cameron]

For sure.

 

It's just the spirit of some people here..doesn't seem like the Kunlun system is for them.

 

No judgement, lots of paths to choose from. Hell my family is part Muslim and part Catholic. No Kunlun people there!

 

In any case, hope people find whatever it is they are looking for and actually can experience the fruit of there search. The arguing over this and that over years here..eh,, gross.

 

Later

[Cameron]

I would get a beer and chat with any of you guys in person.

 

And I think if we all had lunch around a circular table, Chinese style, these conversations would look diffirent.

 

Time to upgrade. Let me know when Taobums becomes a live, virtual chatroom and Ime there

Edited April 20, 2012 by Cameron

[Aetherous]

Hey rainbowvein,

 

I think it's disrespectful to come into this thread talking about another path as if it's better than the one being discussed. You don't see me going into Stillness Movement threads touting Kunlun and saying it's better...

 

There are lots of different ways to stimulate the LDT. The Stillness Movement practice IMO doesn't seem to be dangerous in this regard...although I do think for someone with qigong psychosis it might only make things worse. The strong or more dense qi of the lower dantien opens up the same pathway going up the back channel into the brain. This opinion (regarding a lower dantien building practice) is not just my own through personal experience, but is also reflected in medical qigong texts...

[joeblast]

the particulars of danger are always dependent on the methods of deviating from proper practice.

[Aaron]

Hey rainbowvein,

 

I think it's disrespectful to come into this thread talking about another path as if it's better than the one being discussed. You don't see me going into Stillness Movement threads touting Kunlun and saying it's better...

 

There are lots of different ways to stimulate the LDT. The Stillness Movement practice IMO doesn't seem to be dangerous in this regard...although I do think for someone with qigong psychosis it might only make things worse. The strong or more dense qi of the lower dantien opens up the same pathway going up the back channel into the brain. This opinion (regarding a lower dantien building practice) is not just my own through personal experience, but is also reflected in medical qigong texts...

 

You're reacting to something that's not there. She just made a statement regarding her own practice and said that you might gain some insight from it without any of the perceived dangers found in your own. Lighten up there Scotty.

 

Aaron

[Green Tiger]

Horse stance is better then kunlun TM, peace out

 

Maybe.

 

But.

 

Empty stance trumps horse stance every time.

 

 

I wanted to use an awesome image of Ray Park's empty stance, but it was the copyrighted. You can view it here

 

Also a good empty stance

 

[Aetherous]

You're reacting to something that's not there. She just made a statement regarding her own practice and said that you might gain some insight from it without any of the perceived dangers found in your own. Lighten up there Scotty.

 

I realize that's what she said, and I find it offensive.

 

As joeblast said, the only dangers are from incorrect practice.

 

I also realize that lightening up is good for me, however...

 

This is a thread about red phoenix, a Kunlun practice. It's for people interested in those things ONLY.

 

It's not for a bunch of bystanders to talk about random bullshit. It's not a place to be critical of Max. Not a place to talk about other systems.

 

If you're not interested in Kunlun...not interested in red phoenix...get out! If you're just interested in the drama...get OUT.

 

Recently it was said that it's against forum rules to derail threads. There has been way too much of that happening here.

 

It's also against the rules to slander teachers. Obviously that has happened here.

 

Part of slandering would also be a bunch of outsiders misunderstanding things that are being said, and insinuating that the Kunlun system is dangerous. It's UNTRUE and it's DAMAGING to the system to say those things. No one ever said that was the case, and I find it totally disrespectful for people to perpetuate those misunderstandings.

 

In actuality, it's a very healing system of practices.

 

So yeah: have some respect for those interested in Kunlun here, and don't derail the thread, don't slander the teacher or the system, don't speak about things you know nothing about. Let the interested people have a clear place to ask questions and get answers...please, forum members, stop making threads into a gigantic mess like this one has become.

 

And if you have a problem with me speaking my mind on this, then realize that it's my problem and my choice to temporarily step off of the spiritual path and say this. This is not a thread to discuss whether I need to lighten up or not...if you want to discuss that, just PM me. Discussing it on here is derailing the thread. I realize that discussing people derailing the thread also happens to be another way to derail the thread further, so I'm sorry to those who are interested in this.

 

So this is the final thing I'll say in here that's not entirely on topic. I will just report whoever is fucking around from this point forward.

[goldisheavy]

It's third eye breathing basically. Even if max's practices are legit though, he isn't.

 

I'm slightly confused here. Wouldn't you associate with someone like Max purely for the practice? If the practice is legit, then what's the problem? It's not like you have to marry your daughter to Max or something.

[goldisheavy]

What my friend and I seek in a master isn't subtle energy, but rather obvious energy.

 

My friend is years ahead of me, and as my senior I trust his judgement on the matter.

 

What you say is true though, just because something is too subtle to be felt doesn't make it nonexistent.

 

It just makes me uninterested in it.

 

Max has no more appeal for me than a reiki master, or a wiccan coven leader, or a sufi priest or whirling dervish.

 

Sure all of those people may have some valid teachings, but I am not interested in sifting through them.

 

I've got maybe 50 years left here on this earth If I am lucky, and I've got something I want to do before I die.

 

There is so much that isn't going to help me realize my goal, and my time is running out.

 

I don't want to waste my time.

 

So when someone way more advanced than me goes and visits a famous master and tells me not to waste my time, I trust his judgement and move on.

 

No offense to you or anyone else.

 

This seems like a sane and respectable attitude on one hand. You don't want to waste time. At the same time, while your search is in progress for a master who can display an obvious and overt level of energy, presumably you are doing something, right? Because if you're not doing much while you're waiting for your friend to find you a good master to follow, I'd say you're also wasting time.

 

Would you consider what Wim Hof does subtle? I would consider it subtle, personally. Win Hof never, to my knowledge, demonstrated a fireball, or telekinesis or similar things. He can keep warm in the cold, which is something you can learn yourself with relatively little practice (less than a year I would say). He demonstrated control over his immune system, which again, I believe is something you too can learn relatively easily (say 10 years). But none of this stuff is gross, like shooting fireballs from your hands, lighting light bulbs or LEDs with your fingers, tolerating huge electricity flow across your body, eating glass and harmlessly shitting it out, and similar tricks. Nonetheless, you seem to respect Wim.

 

If Wim offered to teach you, would you accept his guidance? Just curious.

[goldisheavy]

Perhaps the marketing for any system/teacher ought to be considered seperately from the actual teacher and teachings?

 

I too have seen the marketing savvy of some martial arts & internal martial arts teachers to be lacking. It is not their domain of excellence. Their materials - online and in print (maybe even in person) - are oftentimes poorly presented - either too gaudy, unclear, or unremarkable. That's where TTB members to be invaluable in sharing their experiences.

 

I think the teachings should be considered separately from the teachers, but marketing does reflect on the teacher's personality. If the teacher doesn't block the embellished and inflated marketing, it reflects (poorly) on teacher's personality.

 

So marketing can't really be separate from the teacher, imo. But teachings should be separated from the teacher.

[goldisheavy]

You can get energy into your brain and not be able to get it out, and no amount of antipsychotic medication is going to have one bit of effect on it. They call this kundalini or qigong psychosis, and it's a real threat.

 

If you got energy into your brain, you can certainly get it out. Specifically, if your head feels bloated, heavy, about to explode, put your attention 30 feet into the ground, below yourself, and keep it there. Keep your mind's attention deep inside the Earth, quite some distance below your body. Do this continuously and your head will deflate. Speaking from experience. (I'm assuming your head inflated from some spiritual exercise and not from something else, like a medical condition or physical trauma, in which case you should check yourself out at the hospital first.)

Edited April 20, 2012 by goldisheavy

[Apech]

*** Moderator Message ***

 

We are getting a lot of reports from this thread. Just a couple of observations for now.

 

1. Because the title of the thread refers to "red Pheonix" we are not going to take mod action simply because something is not strictly answering that question. This is not derailing the thread it is just the free flow of conversation just as in a normal spoken conversation. If people prefer other practices and want to say so then that's ok.

 

2. Some teachers are controversial and attract criticism ... if you are going to do this then it is better to state the technical or factual reasons behind your observations or objections to their teachings. This is better than saying so-and-so is a **** or whatever and gives the reader a chance to make their own assessment based on fact and not opinion.

 

3. Please could you avoid this thread breaking down into bickering. Don't take things personally as it gets messy and we will have to step in, which nobody likes.

 

**** Mod Message *****

 

Apech for Mod Team

[Green Tiger]

I realize that's what she said, and I find it offensive.

 

As joeblast said, the only dangers are from incorrect practice.

 

I also realize that lightening up is good for me, however...

 

This is a thread about red phoenix, a Kunlun practice. It's for people interested in those things ONLY.

 

It's not for a bunch of bystanders to talk about random bullshit. It's not a place to be critical of Max. Not a place to talk about other systems.

 

If you're not interested in Kunlun...not interested in red phoenix...get out! If you're just interested in the drama...get OUT.

 

Recently it was said that it's against forum rules to derail threads. There has been way too much of that happening here.

 

It's also against the rules to slander teachers. Obviously that has happened here.

 

Part of slandering would also be a bunch of outsiders misunderstanding things that are being said, and insinuating that the Kunlun system is dangerous. It's UNTRUE and it's DAMAGING to the system to say those things. No one ever said that was the case, and I find it totally disrespectful for people to perpetuate those misunderstandings.

 

In actuality, it's a very healing system of practices.

 

So yeah: have some respect for those interested in Kunlun here, and don't derail the thread, don't slander the teacher or the system, don't speak about things you know nothing about. Let the interested people have a clear place to ask questions and get answers...please, forum members, stop making threads into a gigantic mess like this one has become.

 

And if you have a problem with me speaking my mind on this, then realize that it's my problem and my choice to temporarily step off of the spiritual path and say this. This is not a thread to discuss whether I need to lighten up or not...if you want to discuss that, just PM me. Discussing it on here is derailing the thread. I realize that discussing people derailing the thread also happens to be another way to derail the thread further, so I'm sorry to those who are interested in this.

 

So this is the final thing I'll say in here that's not entirely on topic. I will just report whoever is fucking around from this point forward.

 

Are Max's brain crystals relevant to the topic at hand? You said the "crystallizations I saw in his skull were totally abnormal. They are apparently like Tibetan Buddhist relics, which formed in him as a result of the practices.

 

But who cares?"

 

I care, because that is a really incredible claim. If he has x-ray proof of this, that is huge, IMO. A bold claim. And it sounds like he may be making other bold claims, such as a lightning strike that fused his third eye open. Really amazing.

 

Also pretty dubious.

 

You also made, what I consider to be a pretty bold claim, "I love the instant results from this practice. To me, it is the most powerful one I've learned. Instant enlightenment experiences. It's like you bypass all of your blockages...but maybe that brings some repercussions with it. "

 

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

 

The original poster was interested in this "red phoenix" practice, probably because they wanted to learn it and gain these awesome benefits. I think it's our job as forum members to not only discuss what we know about this practice, but also the person who teaches it, in order to give the original poster and other interested parties an idea of what they might be getting into if they pursue the red phoenix path.

[Owledge]

When I went to Max's workshop, I was a total meditation newb. He gave me a RP transmission and shortly after that (actually not sure when), I felt magnetic energy flow in my head, on the path we are supposed to practice. (And I often do since then, even without practicing the techniques any longer.) I guess that's because my third eye chakra is relatively active.

When I took ayahuasca, that same path had a cool mist flowing through.

So apparently there was more happening than just him placing his finger on my forehead.

[Aaron]

This is a thread about red phoenix, a Kunlun practice. It's for people interested in those things ONLY.

 

But Scotty, who made that decision? Nothing that's happened in this thread has violated the terms of service, simply because it is in the General Discussion section. If you want the discussion to focus solely on the Taoist perspective, then maybe you should take it over to the Taoist Discussion section. On the other hand, if you're not open to discussing varying opinions and ideas in relation to your own, then you're going to limit your own opportunity for growth. Criticism is essential to everyone's growth, whether it's criticism of teachings or practices or one's individual capacities, simply because without it, we can't get an honest appraisal of our understanding and practice.

 

Aaron

 

 

 

[Aetherous]

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

 

That was my personal experience with red phoenix a couple of years ago. I still agree with myself. I have nothing to gain from saying it, and absolutely no wish to convince you or other non-practitioners of anything. This is a thread about kunlun or red phoenix...for practitioners or people who are interested to discuss those things ONLY.

 

For those who are here for a real purpose, this is what the official website says of red phoenix:

 

Red Phoenix One: It is one of the most Ancient Teachings of the Maoshan branch that was once only taught to the head instructor in the monasteries and temples. It is the practice of rapid re-enlightenment, awakening ones dormant spiritual potential quickly, safely and without effort.

 

- http://www.primordia...kunlun-neigung/

[Seth Ananda]

 

This is a thread about red phoenix, a Kunlun practice. It's for people interested in those things ONLY.

 

It's not for a bunch of bystanders to talk about random bullshit. It's not a place to be critical of Max. Not a place to talk about other systems.

 

If you're not interested in Kunlun...not interested in red phoenix...get out! If you're just interested in the drama...get OUT.

 

It's also against the rules to slander teachers. Obviously that has happened here.

 

BS! This is an open forum where [thank god] you are not a moderator. If a subject is what is "red phoenix" then people are going to talk about it, and that includes critiques of the system. You have been quite obnoxious in your dealings with people here scotty. Shouting all your Shut Ups! and Get Outs!

 

Who do you think you are?

 

Go back and carefully re read Morepieguys posts. He was very clear and non insulting in stating that Kunlun is not for him, and why, and he got treated very rudely by you.

Simply because you don't like his opinion - Which he is totally in his rights to give here at this forum.

[Seth Ananda]

This is a thread about kunlun or red phoenix...for practitioners or people who are interested to discuss those things ONLY.

 

BS Again! Rubbish! This is not Your forum, take a chill pill, do some Kunlun or something and get off your high horse! {You sound ridiculous from up there.}

[Aetherous]

Ah another absolutely fucking pointless poster wanting in on the drama. Thanks. I'm done with this topic for good...if anyone wants to engage me in discussion do it via PM...I am not returning.

[JustARandomPanda]

That was my personal experience with red phoenix a couple of years ago. I still agree with myself.

 

 

LMFOA!! I still agree with myself! :lol:

[Owledge]

*drama amplifier on*

 

Is this what red phoenix does to some people?!

 

*drama amplifier off*