what is "red Phoenix"

[Thunder_Gooch]

The more I learn the more I dislike comparing different teachers. For example, I could compare Max or Kan to a couple well known Qigong Masters I have trained with. But there isn't anything at all appealing to me in that myself.

 

The way I look at it now, if it's not for you it's not for you. Why critisize, judge and diss it? Why presume since something isn't for you it isn't the right way for someone else or incredibly helpful to someone else?

 

It's a big Universe, perhaps if something isn't for you and you hear others are enjoying it just moving along would be good?

 

There is a restaurant in Beijing that my friends like but everytime I eat there I get an upset stomach. Does it mean it's a bad restaurant or it's just bad for me?

 

Maybe spiritual teachers are like that and it's not a one size fits all situation?

 

I don't think Max's practices are bad at all. I have no beef with his system. A lot of close friends love it and swear by it.

 

All I am saying is to be careful. You can start doing third eye breathing and wind up with major psychological disturbances.

 

The way I see it you want to build a house, you build the foundation first, then finish the roof, then finish the walls and siding and the drywall last.

[Cameron]

It's a good point.

 

Max teaches other stuff like standing meditation and one breath. As well as stating clearly that the most important time is 20 minutes of closing down with hands over the navel after practice.

 

Also, Red Phoenix 2 brings the energy down very well.

 

I don't practice Red Phoenix by itself much myself. I find doing Yigong/Kunlun 1 by itself enough. But I feel The Red Phoenix pretty much all the time.

 

Level 1 is the upper tan tien part. Level 2 flows that energy through the entire body.

 

Anyway, if people are interested in Kunlun my humble suggestion would be just do the level spontaneous which is already very powerful and get Red Phoenix live from Max or Kan.

 

I'll see how Kan is doing it next week and post about it if there is something new/useful.

[Green Tiger]

Maybe there should be a pinned topic "My School/Method/Teacher is better than yours!" Get it all out of our systems.

 

I didn't know anything about Max or Kunlun until this morning, but I'm pretty sure he is probably AT WORST a knowledgeable fellow. I was especially intrigued by some of the information he has on his site concerning Egyptian practices.

 

It looks like he does teach via Skype, as well. Not going to link, but you can find info under the Events tab on his web site. Kind of expensive, but they say you get what you pay for.

 

Lately, I'm becoming more and more convinced that truly BAD systems are rare. There are a lot of bad students though, who give up quickly or have one bad (or simply disappointing) experience and then run around bashing the system or teacher like they're an expert.

 

I don't know who said that Max has crystals in his skull, or a crystal skull, or whatever they're saying but . . . really? True or untrue, what do you suppose statements like that are doing for his credibility? I wouldn't talk about my teacher's claims about his skull crystals on this forum for the same reasons I don't run around telling the hoi polloi about my dantien. It invites disbelief and ridicule.

[Cameron]

Max is Max.

 

I don't care to change hime or demand he act anyway but himself. He is an amazing person. Who am I to say if he really has or hasn't experienced the many things I have heard him say?

 

I do like Kan's style and looking forward to training with him. He has had wild experiences as well that most people would probably consider flat out lies.

 

But you know what? I didn't sleep for 1 month after learning Kunlun. I dont think that is anything particularly special or anything. That's just what happened. Several of my friends who aren't into this stuff looked at me like I was crazy and didn't believe it. So I shut up about that.

 

Could you imagine being like Max and having these sort of wild experiences all the time and not talking about it? I agree you need to cultivate your wisdom and speak to the level of your audience. Developing wisdom along side "spiritual experiences" is essential.

 

I don't care to have crazy spiritual experiences without the wisdom foundation to back it up. If that means my progress might go slowerso be it.

[Aetherous]

It's a real simple technique, you could fit an accurate summary of how to practice of it in less than one paragraph.

 

Actually, having learned how to teach it (to be clear I'm not certified anymore), I disagree completely. I hope you don't attempt to do that...but in case you do, people should know that they haven't been taught correctly.

 

For those who are interested, go see an apprentice, facilitator, instructor, or Max himself.

 

My issue with it though, is that working with the upper dan tein isn't such a good idea till your lower dan tein is filled to the brim.

 

This is totally untrue and just the opinion of a non-practitioner. Check out the book Taoist Yoga...an upper dantien practice is one of the first things you do.

 

This is the path of the immortals...it is Taoist alchemy. Not qigong. Not a healing qi lineage.

 

The order I was taught to fill the dan teins was lower, upper, and middle, and to be extremely careful working with the upper dan tein.

 

Yes you do have to be careful. By practicing according to instructions. When you stray from that, the problems come. So I urge people not to practice these methods based on the false opinions of outsiders...learn only through the legitimate sources.

 

You can get energy into your brain and not be able to get it out, and no amount of antipsychotic medication is going to have one bit of effect on it. They call this kundalini or qigong psychosis, and it's a real threat.

 

This is actually more due to lower dantien practices done incorrectly or to excess. I know from experience. Red phoenix is safe and if you've been taught by a legitimate source, you will have the the info to keep it that way. There should be no problems resulting from the practice.

 

If anyone experiences problems, ask a legitimate person and you will get help.

 

But yeah main point: the strong type of qi generated in the lower dantien, which has the power to break through the 3 blocks and enter the brain...that's the dangerous type in regards to qigong psychosis. There are SKILLFUL ways of dealing with too much energy in the brain, and it definitely doesn't involve more lower dan practices...that will make you much worse.

[C T]

 

If anyone experiences problems, ask a legitimate person and you will get help.

 

I recall reading somewhere of some student of Kunlun visiting Kan for a healing as he was in great pain all the time, so much so his face and body was almost always contorted - during the healing session, a translator (not a Kunlun practitioner) became very excited because she witnessed black smoke emerging from a non-specified area around this pained student. When asked by an interviewer, Kan nonchalantly said all he did was to reset his body foundation. The interviewer verified that he had a glimpse of the seeker before and after, and the difference was spectacular!

 

Anyone witnessed any similar sessions?

[Owledge]

Regarding the sincerity vs. ability debate about Max: He himself said he's a trickster. That might bring some clarity.

 

My friend felt no orgasmo chi, and I trust someone I know more than someone I don't.

There is a potential logical fallacy involved though. Trust towards a person is not realted to any specific attribute, but to any that apply to that person? Instead the question should be: What about him do you trust? His sincerity or his body's openness to the type of energy that Max can send?

If you trust his judgment, then what you can trust is the statement that your friends didn't feel anything. Nothing more.

 

As you explained, you don't want to waste any time, you're in a hurry and thus only looking for the 'big bang'. Maybe that's part of the dilemma. That might be diametrically opposed to the development of the kind of techniques Max teaches. Maybe

all those expectations are blocking it. And that works like a self-confirmation for the emotional stuff that manifests that outcome in the first place.

 

You probably need to find an exceptional teacher who is willing to walk a tightrope of specifically reaching out to the people less qualified for spiritual techniques instead of those with good preparation. But it might be difficult to find someone like that. Personally, I think in individual cases they might be too careful. But maybe better to be too careful about something that cannot be undone once it's done.

 

I once asked a teacher who supposedly could do crazy stuff. It was all vague, so I asked for a demo to strenghten my faith. It wasn't really mindblowing or something. So I have to live with that. Don't know why it turned out like that - it would have helped. I guess the teacher will have no problem living with my lingering doubts.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Owledge

[Thunder_Gooch]

This is totally untrue and just the opinion of a non-practitioner. Check out the book Taoist Yoga...an upper dantien practice is one of the first things you do.

 

Once the energy gets into the brain, it is not easy to get it out, because the channel between the torso and the head is very narrow.

 

Overdoing brow center stimulation can cause brow center pain, headaches and a plethora of other physical, mental, and psychic problems.

Edited April 19, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

This is actually more due to lower dantien practices done incorrectly or to excess. I know from experience.

 

...

 

But yeah main point: the strong type of qi generated in the lower dantien, which has the power to break through the 3 blocks and enter the brain...that's the dangerous type in regards to qigong psychosis. There are SKILLFUL ways of dealing with too much energy in the brain, and it definitely doesn't involve more lower dan practices...that will make you much worse.

 

o_0

 

If you are running energy in a MCO then yes, if you are storing it at the LDT and not circulating it then no, it will not.

[Aetherous]

Once the energy gets into the brain, it is not easy to get it out, because the channel between the torso and the head is very narrow.

 

The energy being the rising lower dantien energy, which people tend to call "qi". Red phoenix energy (which is something else entirely) actually tends to move throughout the whole body and open the throat channels.

 

Overdoing brow center stimulation can cause brow center pain, headaches and a plethora of other physical, mental, and psychic problems.

 

This is true. It's important not to overdo...also not to be forceful. Gentle and just getting the feeling is best...10 minutes is fine. We do scalp massages to help the sutures open. Another thing I've found that helps is BeCalm balls, which is similar to craniosacral therapy, which is recommended by Max.

 

I am really saying too much to non-practitioners. And I'm not certified to teach so those who are interested, don't take my word for it.

 

If you're not interested, More Pie Guy, then go elsewhere. Or you're just interested in wasting my time and insinuating that I don't know what I'm talking about? That is not appreciated.

[Owledge]

Once the energy gets into the brain, it is not easy to get it out, because the channel between the torso and the head is very narrow.

I was under the impression that there is more than just one route. Personally it feels as if while my connection between upper and middle dan tien is not very strong, the one between upper and lower is.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Owledge

[Birch]

I absolutely can't stand how his system is marketed, it's as if a professional marketer was hired to make him out to be a God. I don't think he is nearly as advanced as his marketing department would lead you to believe.

 

I don't think maxes hands glow, I don't think he has magnetite crystals in his brain, I don't think he was struck by lighting which fused his third eye open, I don't think he or his students can disappear while in meditation, I don't think the people in his videos are really having orgasmo chi fainting spells, and if they are it is purely psychosomatic.

 

I think max might have some legitimate techniques, such as the third eye breathing he teaches, that is how I was taught to fill the upper and middle dan teins.

 

I think max may have some degree of very very subtle ability and those sensitive to it might be able to slightly feel it.

 

I don't think he can walk on water like so many others though.

 

I'd be willing to eat crow if I got a personal demo, or if he underwent at least some basic scientific observation.

 

I would put max on the level of a reiki or wiccan master, and it isn't something I am interested in learning as I fail to see how it could possibly help me.

 

 

My honest apologies if this offends you, It's not my goal to offend anyone.

 

I should have known better than to answer a question from 2 years ago on such a touchy subject.

 

Yes it's horrible. Exactly the kind of horrible I'd go check out for myself once I've freed up (more than) a little spare change. But then, it's a hobby of mine to go check out weird cultivation-related stuff. I'm like my own experimental frog.

When I'm on vacation, I visit churches and random cultish things that I'd never be seen dead in on a regular basis if I lived there. In the meantime, there's loads, tonnes of cultivation stuff online (and on here) and everywhere and it seems to me to be less a question of what it is in terms of technique, but whether that technique will 'happen' for you. There's a bunch of stuff I wouldn't go for now that I did then and may later but not right now.

 

- opinion alert--

[Aetherous]

If you are running energy in a MCO then yes, if you are storing it at the LDT and not circulating it then no, it will not.

 

When you store with your feelings or mind, also with the breath, it automatically circulates through the MCO. It will cause problems if you are experiencing qigong or kundalini psychosis...I know and have experienced both varieties as a result of improper lower dantien methods and other things.

 

When I was having my qigong psychosis experiences last year, among other things, I was instructed to lay on my back and breathe very gently and naturally, with the hands on the LDT right outside of left. That hand position does help bring energy out of the head, and with storing and not circulating...so what you say is possible...

[Thunder_Gooch]

I can't continue the debate in public without inflaming the community more, I'll answer you via PM if that is acceptable.

 

 

 

 

Regarding the sincerity vs. ability debate about Max: He himself said he's a trickster. That might bring some clarity.

 

 

There is a potential logical fallacy involved though. Trust towards a person is not realted to any specific attribute, but to any that apply to that person? Instead the question should be: What about him do you trust? His sincerity or his body's openness to the type of energy that Max can send?

If you trust his judgment, then what you can trust is the statement that your friends didn't feel anything. Nothing more.

 

As you explained, you don't want to waste any time, you're in a hurry and thus only looking for the 'big bang'. Maybe that's part of the dilemma. That might be diametrically opposed to the development of the kind of techniques Max teaches. Maybe

all those expectations are blocking it. And that works like a self-confirmation for the emotional stuff that manifests that outcome in the first place.

 

You probably need to find an exceptional teacher who is willing to walk a tightrope of specifically reaching out to the people less qualified for spiritual techniques instead of those with good preparation. But it might be difficult to find someone like that. Personally, I think in individual cases they might be too careful. But maybe better to be too careful about something that cannot be undone once it's done.

 

I once asked a teacher who supposedly could do crazy stuff. It was all vague, so I asked for a demo to strenghten my faith. It wasn't really mindblowing or something. So I have to live with that. Don't know why it turned out like that - it would have helped. I guess the teacher will have no problem living with my lingering doubts.

[Birch]

Er, I'm not inflamed and I'm not a 'community'

 

Just sayin'

[Thunder_Gooch]

When you store with your feelings or mind, also with the breath, it automatically circulates through the MCO. It will cause problems if you are experiencing qigong or kundalini psychosis...I know and have experienced both varieties as a result of improper lower dantien methods and other things.

 

When I was having my qigong psychosis experiences last year, among other things, I was instructed to lay on my back and breathe very gently and naturally, with the hands on the LDT right outside of left. That hand position does help bring energy out of the head, and with storing and not circulating...so what you say is possible...

 

Yes the MCO will start on it's own without your help, that is why you stop it.

[Protector]

Horse stance is better then kunlun TM, peace out

[Aetherous]

Stopping it...right. I'm sure you have experience with this... This isn't the place for discussing the methods and means of other schools or teachers.

 

Once again...since you have no interest, please leave.

[Thunder_Gooch]

The guy is probably a great guy, and as others have said very knowledgeable.

 

Surely at the very least he is a good teacher, and a wise fellow as someone else here said.

 

Just not my cup of tea.

 

 

Yes it's horrible. Exactly the kind of horrible I'd go check out for myself once I've freed up (more than) a little spare change. But then, it's a hobby of mine to go check out weird cultivation-related stuff. I'm like my own experimental frog.

When I'm on vacation, I visit churches and random cultish things that I'd never be seen dead in on a regular basis if I lived there. In the meantime, there's loads, tonnes of cultivation stuff online (and on here) and everywhere and it seems to me to be less a question of what it is in terms of technique, but whether that technique will 'happen' for you. There's a bunch of stuff I wouldn't go for now that I did then and may later but not right now.

 

- opinion alert--

[Aetherous]

Just not my cup of tea.

 

No one cares. Bye!

[Thunder_Gooch]

Stopping it...right. I'm sure you have experience with this... This isn't the place for discussing the methods and means of other schools or teachers.

 

Once again...since you have no interest, please leave.

 

I do.

 

I am trying, I find it hard to though when something addressing me is left hanging.

 

In the future I'll know only to respond via PM and avoid this mess.

[Aetherous]

I do.

 

I don't believe you at all.

 

See you (somewhere other than here)!

[Protector]

Stop saying "bye" already!

[Aetherous]

[Birch]

 

Nice! Cam, can I post this one to you every time :-)?

 

Edit: Moon, bear and present.

 

And singing animals.

 

I say people remember these things even if they get the masks wrong:-)

Edited April 20, 2012 by -K-