what is "red Phoenix"

[寒月 Hanyue]

[Medhavi]

What exactly is the Red Phoenix technique? Is it the same as the "red sun" practice in the Kunlun book?

 

I'd like to take this moment of relative silence in terms of drama and mention that Christopher Matsuo's Kwan Yin's Magnetic Qi Gong contains a third eye breathing technique that may be similar to "Red Phoenix". If it is the same, I cannot say because I have not been introduced to Kunlun. However, I believe that Trunk knows whether or not they are the same.

[Owledge]

I'd like to take this moment of relative silence in terms of drama and mention that Christopher Matsuo's Kwan Yin's Magnetic Qi Gong contains a third eye breathing technique that may be similar to "Red Phoenix". If it is the same, I cannot say because I have not been introduced to Kunlun. However, I believe that Trunk knows whether or not they are the same.

They are similar in that they are both third eye breathing, but they are profoundly different in approach. (Also, only RP 1 is that, RP 2 and 3 are other stuff, involving the whole body.)

Edited April 21, 2012 by Owledge

[jeffrito]

Well guys I've decided on Yi Gong with Jenny Lamb.

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Trunk]

I'd like to take this moment of relative silence in terms of drama and mention that Christopher Matsuo's Kwan Yin's Magnetic Qi Gong contains a third eye breathing technique that may be similar to "Red Phoenix". If it is the same, I cannot say because I have not been introduced to Kunlun. However, I believe that Trunk knows whether or not they are the same.

Allowing for variance of teaching style, they are basically the same. I've seen Jenny's dvd, I've been to Max's seminar, and have seen Chris's KYMQ. My preferred presentation is KYMQ. Obviously people find their own way and their own relationships, but the details presented in KYMQ really opened up the practice for me. Ordering info for KYMQ at my DGS Reviews page.

[Aetherous]

they are basically the same

 

 

Said in good fun and with no disrespect.

 

I see many major differences between the two versions that lead to entirely different results...similar in some ways maybe, but not at all the same.

 

As has been said, those interested in this stuff should only learn from a certified apprentice/facilitator/instructor or Max. All other information, even from those who know and practice (a version) of red phoenix should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

For instance, a beginning practitioner said earlier that many people later on in the path experience qigong psychosis and entity issues. Totally untrue information! This type of thing is actually against multiple forum rules. Do I need to copy and paste them here?

 

Peace out again.

[goldisheavy]

As has been said, those interested in this stuff should only learn from a certified apprentice/facilitator/instructor or Max. All other information, even from those who know and practice (a version) of red phoenix should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

What I don't understand here, Scotty, is why do you suggest that apprentices should be taken with a grain of salt, but Max should be believed wholesale and without any reservation? Why don't you warn people to take what Max teaches with a grain of salt? Wouldn't that be a fair warning?

 

Is there a teacher who can be approached with a grain of salt and still be of benefit? Or do teachers naturally require and expect total suspension of critical thinking these days?

Edited April 21, 2012 by goldisheavy

[konchog uma]

I'd like to take this moment of relative silence in terms of drama and mention that Christopher Matsuo's Kwan Yin's Magnetic Qi Gong contains a third eye breathing technique that may be similar to "Red Phoenix". If it is the same, I cannot say because I have not been introduced to Kunlun. However, I believe that Trunk knows whether or not they are the same.

 

they're similar but not the same

 

and KYMQ is done with the heels raised which opens the heel channels that drain excess energy from the head. I have never had a problem with energy buildup in the head from it.

 

red phoenix as i learned it doesnt do that, and i had problems which probably came from not closing down long enough. They were alleviated before i got seriously sick, but i still won't practice kunlun because of my experience with it. No disrespect to kunlun, and the teacher who taught me is awesome, but its just not for me, thats all.

[humbleone]

 

When I was having my qigong psychosis experiences last year, among other things, I was instructed to lay on my back and breathe very gently and naturally, with the hands on the LDT right outside of left. That hand position does help bring energy out of the head, and with storing and not circulating...so what you say is possible...

 

hmm, in another post, I think you accused me of making stuff up about kunlun and qigong psychosis

[Aetherous]

goldisheavy,

 

I'm trying to stay away from here...

 

What I don't understand here, Scotty, is why do you suggest that apprentices should be taken with a grain of salt, but Max should be believed wholesale and without any reservation? Why don't you warn people to take what Max teaches with a grain of salt? Wouldn't that be a fair warning?

 

I said take non-apprentices with a grain of salt...or better yet...don't believe anything they say! That includes me. Apprentices are fine to learn with. It is essential for the serious student to learn from the certified people for numerous reasons.

 

It's acceptable to take EVERYONE's teachings or ideas with a grain of salt. I do that. But when it comes to these practices, Max is basically an expert, and the people he has taught and who remain certified over the years are the only ones worth listening to.

 

Or do teachers naturally require and expect total suspension of critical thinking these days?

 

Not at all. Critical thinking is very much encouraged, as is being true to yourself and whatever inclinations you have (at least this is my understanding of the Kunlun path).

[Aetherous]

OK, I will very clearly state this:

 

I DID NOT EXPERIENCE QIGONG PSYCHOSIS FROM KUNLUN.

 

I hope you saw that this time. I was making up practices and experimenting with things from multiple traditions on myself all day and night for weeks on end. My experience had nothing to do with Kunlun, and I do not represent Kunlun.

 

So, I hope you caught that: no one has gotten qigong psychosis from the Kunlun system.

 

No one.

 

Not a single person.

 

In fact, the Kunlun system is very healing and prevents such a thing from occurring. All of the practices, including red phoenix, are completely safe and completely foundational. Just be smart and follow instructions from the certified people. You will be totally fine.

 

Now stop slandering and posting knowingly false information here. Such actions, besides being against forum rules (which the moderators SHOULD do something about), are incredibly disrespectful to everyone involved.

[goldisheavy]

goldisheavy,

 

I'm trying to stay away from here...

 

Why? Am I pulling you back in against your will? I hope not.

 

I said take non-apprentices with a grain of salt...or better yet...don't believe anything they say! That includes me. Apprentices are fine to learn with. It is essential for the serious student to learn from the certified people for numerous reasons.

 

Well now... now you're saying I shouldn't believe anything you say. That's not what the expression "take with a grain of salt" means, imo. So I am not going to take that advice literally. I don't think you mean it that way.

 

It's acceptable to take EVERYONE's teachings or ideas with a grain of salt.

 

Interesting choice of words. "Acceptable." Not "advisable." Just acceptable. Interesting.

 

I do that. But when it comes to these practices, Max is basically an expert, and the people he has taught and who remain certified over the years are the only ones worth listening to.

 

OK, when it comes to conventional knowledge and skills, it's easy to identify experts, because there are lots of people available with the same or similar skills and knowledge, and these people can arrange themselves in a social ladder by voluntarily deferring to someone they believe is more knowledgeable or skilled. If we then investigate these relationships and see who defers to whom, then we can get an idea of who is an expert. That's one way of doing it at least.

 

In this field of knowledge and skill though, everyone keeps to themselves. There are lots of secret clubs. Chains of deference are short or even meaningless, such as when you defer only to your lineage elders, meaning, you defer to your own base, meaning, you defer to yourself. So if I defer to my teacher and his teacher and then teacher's teacher, I'm basically strengthening a thin pole of opinion upon which I stand. It's a vertical relationship (as opposed to horizontal, reasoned peer consensus, etc.).

 

So when people in the spiritual field claim to be experts (or their students say so), it's not the same thing as someone claiming to be an expert on plumbing, which is a widely available and readily understood discipline, lots of horizontal relationships, very little verticality at all (is there some godly/enlightened plumber at the feet of which all plumbers bow?), etc.

 

So you don't feel strange about the label "expert"?

 

In my time I've met some exceptionally wise people. I would just call them wise. I wouldn't call them experts. I'd say they are worth paying attention to, but I wouldn't suggest to make any single one of them your exclusive source of knowledge. But that's just me.

 

Anyway, it's not a big deal. I am actually more curious what kind of progress Kunlun practice called "red phoenix" enables. People have said there is progress. Progress from what to what? What specifically is attained? For example, if you lift weights, you'll get stronger. I can understand this sort of progress. I know what it means to be stronger, etc. When someone practices "red phoenix" correctly and successfully, what specifically improves? Is this possible to explain? If yes, I'd be curious to hear it.

[sifusufi]

It's supremely funny that you said "zero juice"...inside joke amongst kunluners. Maybe someone will understand what I'm getting at.

 

I got zero juice from Max too!

 

 

Anyone who was in Austin knows MAX HAD JUICE! and DR. PEPPER!!!

 

inside joke

 

all kidding aside, he gave it, I got it

 

"Healers die young"

 

I guess you have to...

 

A. Let go

 

B. Need healing or have a specific need for it

 

Read "Pathnotes of An American Ninja Master" to find out what happens when you can't handle the juice

 

Just as cool as meeting Max was getting to hang with everyone else.

 

Chris was super F'n cool to talk to as were Glenn Morris's higher level students

cooler yet was the fact that it was the 6th year anniversary of Glenn's passing

( I spent last year with Santi )

 

enough

 

[Cat Pillar]

Anyone who was in Austin knows MAX HAD JUICE! and DR. PEPPER!!!

 

 

 

That Dr. Pepper was magically obtained, too. He spoke, and it appeared! LOL