Tai Chi, Taoist Meditation and Psychosomatic issues

[dwai]

Dear Friends,

 

I have spent quite a while on Taobums and feel that this might be an opportune moment to pose this question to some of those who have gone before me.

 

With my Tai Chi practice, a couple of things have happened --

 

1) Physical discomfort

2) Mental discomfort

 

Dont get me wrong -- I think it is not so much Tai Chi or the way I have been taught or have been practicing as it is what I've started getting quite familiar with off late -- Inner Demons.

 

I have been told and also read about these things -- of bound emotions and/or memories surfacing as practice progresses in the form of physical and/or mental discomfort and pain.

 

One series of incidents (ranging from a stressful job change to a lost child in the first trimester of my wife's pregnancy to severe emotional trauma) left it's mark in me in the form of acute physical pain in the left side of my body, with almost a complete tightening up of the left side (from toe to crown point) and severe pain in the left neck area and near and around the left shoulder blade. My friend, a Zen Shiatsu practitioner and my teacher have said that it is a blockage and will have to be worked out of the system with practice. And by doing certain things (such as modifying my tai chi practice and using BK Frantzis's standing and releasing) the pain is more in control than it was before. But it still surfaces under stressful situations and takes a while to go away. It is almost as if the Chi rises into the left channel of the body and is trying to burst through to the top. Any one had anything similar happen to them? If so, could you please share what you did and how you brought it under control?

 

Second series have happened since the past year or so, when my practice takes me to almost a place of utter silence when specific thought patterns shatter my meditation. They are very disturbing and seem alien to my nature. It is almost as if there is some other entity that is thinking these thoughts and introducing them to disbalance my equillibrium and disrupt my meditation.

 

Usually while practicing on my own, it doesn't raise it's head so much. But when I am in a class or in a group these thoughts return and leave me a total mess. I know it is essential to be aware that these thoughts arise and are associated with the Ego and have to be ignored and dealt with with detachment. But these thoughts are so personal in nature and cast such aspersions on my nature that they rattle me nonetheless. Some days are easier than others. Has anyone else had such experiences? If so, what have you done to deal with it?

 

Best,

 

Dwai

[forestofsouls]

Dwai,

 

This is true in Buddhist based meditation practice as well. I can tell you how I approach it--- but keep in mind, it is from more of a Buddhist than a Taoist perspective.

 

What works for me is making peace with whatever arises. Usually, there is a subtle physical and/or mental tension that arises with these things. See if you can relax and smooth out the tension. Shinzen Young always says that suffering = pain x resistance. Often, it is the resistance that causes so much of the trouble.

 

As to alien thoughts, others probably will have varying perspectives on this (and whether they represent other entities), but in my view, all thoughts are alien. If you trace them back, they arise out of nothing and return to nothing. Because they occur in sigh/sound space only I can see, I call them "my thoughts." When I practice, I simply try to let them go--- like drops of rain or snow. They arise and pass. Let them. It's only when you get caught up in a struggle with them that they become a problem. I've noticed in the long run, ALL my inner chatter quiets down.

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited August 26, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Mokona]

dwai,

 

I would like to give you a few ideas. If you can find a Reiki practitioner, a few sessions will help remove the pain. It works best when something is ready to be removed, but just being stubborn. I've had alot of people start to cry when I use Reiki on them.

 

Also, you can ask to see the source of the pain in meditation. Your mind will symbolicly construct for you the source of the problem, otherwise you'll even see the energetic disfiguration that needs attention. From there you can focus intent on healing and fixing, and just breath. Until it is cleaned, fixed and washed out.

 

Another method I have used is to ask myself a phrase in meditation. "Where is (specific pain) coming from?"

 

Then my subconcious will sometimes bubble up the answer, or at least a reply. I imagine that a rope is attached to this reply and follow it back to th source until I find the issue.

 

 

Another method is reaching inside of yourself and pulling out the pain. You can use your physical hands if you know how to feel inside your body, or energetic, mentally created hands. I've had great success in this and have pulled out all sorts of junk before. Just try your best to find the roots, and if any energetic critters are trying to take advantage of your pain, remove or destroy them the best you know how.

 

Sometimes parts of your mind/psyche will want to keep the pain, as a learning lesson. Well, if you feel that your body and mind is holding onto this pain and it isn't required, then you can speak to those aspects of yourself that are hanging onto the feelings and work it out emotionally and logically.

 

Good luck Dwai

[doc benway]

Some thoughts:

 

As the mind quiets, it is natural for repressed ideas, experiences, emotions, and so forth to surface.

Ignoring them and detatching from them simply represses them yet again and they will continue to recur and plague you. There are lots of tricks and methods for making them "go away" but they are still there - they will always be there. They are a part of who you are - hard wired into your nervous system. The longer they are repressed, the stronger they become.

 

My approach has been to embrace and accept them. Stay with the feelings and thoughts. Look deeply into them to see what they arise from and who it is that is experiencing them. It's a major undertaking but only through deep and very serious exploration/observation of yourself and all of these fragmented and buried components of yourself can you expect to find peace. It is not really important to analyze these things as there is only so much that the brain can "understand" about feelings but it is important (IMO) to acknowledge, observe, and accept it all. Approach it with love and endless patience as if for a stray dog or a suffering child. Once you clearly recognize this movement under the surface of who you think you are, then you may find liberation and the freedom to act based on conscious choices rather than subconscious conditioning. If it becomes difficult to face yourself - seek out help.

 

Hallucinations, be they auditory or visual, are also pretty common with deep meditation. Whether they are repressed thoughts, demons, immortals, ghosts, spirits, inorganic beings, dead ancestors, or yesterday's lunch really is irrelevant. My teacher has always emphasized the importance of remaining focused on the practice and not letting hallucinations interfere. They can be scary as hell - one of the reasons a teacher is important.

 

As far as the physical pain, it may well be a physical manifestation of repressed anger and rage and other strong emotions that are socially unacceptable to express. If so, they should lessen once that fact is recognized and accepted at a deep level. On the other hand, if the pain persists it may be prudent to discuss your symptoms with a physician you trust to reassure yourself that it's nothing potentially more harmful.

 

I hope that makes some sense and is of some value.

I recognize that some of these things are contradictory and paradoxical.

I also think it's critical to practice under the direct guidance of an experienced teacher.

This stuff can be very tricky to handle without that support.

[Oolong Rabbit]

I have a very similar issue in the left side of my body and shoulder, but my problem came from physical trauma rather than emotional. One thing most will agree on is that taichi will make you much more conscious of your body. I hadn't even realized it, but for years after my injury I had been favoring my right side. The muscles and nerves in my left shoulder had begun to atrophy and degenerate, so that side of my body carried a lot of tension. On more than one occasion when energy would move up my back it would get "stuck" near the bottom of my bad shoulder for days (not fun). My teacher said taichi will loosen up the shoulder, but it would take a long time to fix since it took a long time to get that way. I sought out treatment from an accupuncturist. A few hours after the first session it felt as if daggers were flying out the front of my chest (which was odd since he only pierced the back). He has helped me a lot, but there's still much I have to do on my own. Lots of stretching, and tying to be more conscious of my left side in daily activities. Anyhow, to make a long story short, it might not hurt to seek out a skilled accupuncturist. He might be able to "pinpoint" the problem.

 

Brgds!

[dwai]

Dear Friends,

 

Thanks for your responses and good vibrations. I will try and work on the advice given here.

 

Best Regards,

 

Dwai

[Gerard]

[gendao]

Lol yesterday, I actually purposely thought of personal "hot button" issues during meditation - in the hopes of working through and releasing them then.

 

I think when you purge stored negativity, it's either going to hurt or manifest as crap out in your life. So, pick your poison...lol.

(Or more likely, it will pick for you...)

[Adishakti]

[Vajrahridaya]

[C T]

Bumping this thread, as I have experienced much self healing of my left side big time in my taoist meditation practice.

 

Anyone up to reporting on their current state of healing?

This is simply wonderful to hear, RV! Wonderful indeed.

[King Kabalabhati]

Is this the dude that rails against wimpy chi kung?

 

I've only heard of this E.L.O. technique recently. Is it for real?!

 

It SEEMS very real indeed. Makes me wonder how much of each emotion I have / have had stored inside. Gone through some pretty intense phases of cleansing myself, now I don't really know if there's a lot of old junk left or not. I guess I should go to mr. Clyman to find out

 

The most often occuring feeling I have (can't identify the emotion for sure, anxiety or worry maybe?) is a "restlessness" in the solar plexus area. I actually feel it right now. My anger has become much more manageable and "lighter" as my practice has progressed. Sadness is not as common as it used to be, usually just before the full moon I get a "blue" day or two. I don't get as many feelings of "release" through Qigong and meditation as I used to.

[King Kabalabhati]

dbl post

Edited May 25, 2011 by King Kabalabhati

[Otis]

It is not really important to analyze these things as there is only so much that the brain can "understand" about feelings but it is important (IMO) to acknowledge, observe, and accept it all. Approach it with love and endless patience as if for a stray dog or a suffering child.

Excellent post, Steve! I particularly liked this bit.

[RiverSnake]

Dwai, BK Fratzis book the water method talks about this very topic: dissolving blockages and inner demons.

[markern]

[idquest]

Bumping this thread, as I have experienced much self healing of my left side big time in my taoist meditation practice.

 

Anyone up to reporting on their current state of healing?

RV,

 

Your blog in the personal practice section is huge inspiration. I understand you started with the B. Frantzis staff and then moved on to the M. Lomax's?

 

I don't have an access to the Frantzis's instructors and cost of attending his and M. Lomax's seminars is pretty high for me considering transportation. So far I'm trying to glean everything possible from the books; there is some degree of success but much less than I'd like to see.

 

Do you think that for you M. Lomax's technics are building upon the foundation you laid out with the Frantzis's stuff?

[lifeforce]

Meditation is meditation, whether Daoist, Buddhist or Sufi. Labelling meditation only brings more attachment and way for the mind to cling onto. The key question in here is to understand where the pain comes from (sankhara of dependent origination):

 

So glad you haven't left these forums. This is excellent.

Thanks

[idquest]

Nope. However, I can only speak to beginning practices of BKF's system, which is a very different system from Michael's. In the year and a half of BKF's teachings, in no way did I formally cultivate my intent, the heavenly energies, nor the dan tien. So, internal energy power wise, my BKF practices were a drop in the bucket. Though, the practices were GREAT to get in touch with my body, to learn how to relax into me.

 

My life experiences were the foundation for signing up for my first workshop with Michael. Once learning Michael's techniques, I resisted any BKF practices. However, I have come around, and back to BKF's Energy Gates practice, and some others, esp. circling hands. I often use them as warm ups, or to discharge tension.

 

These days, if I do need to discharge tension or sick qi, or connect to celestial energies, I don't have to leave my seat. I can cultivate anywhere, and can quickly get into a meditative state at my will. The expansion of the dantien and condensed qi has been wonderfully apparent these last few months. To speak of Taomeow's term "ganying," stillness-movement resonates with me.

 

Monetarily, I spent a lot during my time with BKF's Water Method teachings. I'm spending about the same with Michael's system. Only thing is, more of the money goes toward airline, hotel and rental car costs.

 

Thanks for asking, idquest!

[Adishakti]

Since birth?

 

Yes, he's lovely.

 

I've been blessed with some living Gurus finding me (maybe subconsciously I asked for them) , but I don't hold on to any (may be it's my lack of better judgment). I think I'm going Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha way and I can't help but think am doing something completely wrong. However, I can imagine how lovely it would be to be held by a Guru. I guess I'm a little off tangent, but thank you for the response, Vajrahridaya.

 

 

Interesting, I was a student of Muktanandas since birth really. But, I've read pretty much everything published from him as well as his audio and video. Yes, it's true, and any Tantric practice has methods for this. The way might arise naturally through deepened inner practice. But, yes, it's possible by transmuting all sensations into bliss.

[Jetsun]

Nope. However, I can only speak to beginning practices of BKF's system, which is a very different system from Michael's. In the year and a half of BKF's teachings, in no way did I formally cultivate my intent, the heavenly energies, nor the dan tien. So, internal energy power wise, my BKF practices were a drop in the bucket. Though, the practices were GREAT to get in touch with my body, to learn how to relax into me.

 

My life experiences were the foundation for signing up for my first workshop with Michael. Once learning Michael's techniques, I resisted any BKF practices. However, I have come around, and back to BKF's Energy Gates practice, and some others, esp. circling hands. I often use them as warm ups, or to discharge tension.

 

These days, if I do need to discharge tension or sick qi, or connect to celestial energies, I don't have to leave my seat. I can cultivate anywhere, and can quickly get into a meditative state at my will. The expansion of the dantien and condensed qi has been wonderfully apparent these last few months. To speak of Taomeow's term "ganying," stillness-movement resonates with me.

 

Monetarily, I spent a lot during my time with BKF's Water Method teachings. I'm spending about the same with Michael's system. Only thing is, more of the money goes toward airline, hotel and rental car costs.

 

Thanks for asking, idquest!

 

Do you have any experience with or know if stillness movement can deal with the issue Bruce Frantzis calls "fog" in his Water Method books ? where you dissociate and it's like your mind is in mist and you don't know your way out. This is a big issue of mine.

[Gerard]

So glad you haven't left these forums. This is excellent.

Thanks

 

Thank you. Glad to see you are already here. I like to help without asking anything in return and will do so in threads that are worth discussing without altercations of any kind or motivated by the ego.

 

I got a copy here of one of the Daoist bibles: Understanding Reality, the Inner Teachings of Taoism, The Book of Balance and Harmony and Practical Taoism.

 

Well in Practical Taoism I found the following passage:

 

The mind is the ruler of the whole body, the commander of all mental powers. When it is quiet, it produces insight; when agitated, it becomes unclear. Therefore in the beginning of the study of the Way, it is necessary to sit calmly, collect the mind, and detach from objects, so the mind does not posses anything. By dwelling in nonpossession, one does not cling to anything, spontaneously entering into absolute nonresistance. The mind then merges with the Way.

 

This is so Buddhist, and this recommendation sounds like Vipassana to me. But wait aren't we talking about the Way and Daoism?

 

My friends, in the end regardless of what method you follow it is the mind the last obstacle to tackle before entering the Dao, Nirvana, Heaven or the state of Moksha. They are just names for the same goal.

 

Liberation is within the mind.

 

I still don't understand why some Western authors like to use their own names to methods developed thousands of years ago...kind of like reinventing the wheel. The ego is also another mental obstacle to attain the final state.

 

Regards.

[gendao]

I still don't understand why some Western authors like to use their own names to methods developed thousands of years ago...kind of like reinventing the wheel. The ego is also another mental obstacle to attain the final state.

In the West, authors oversimplify & rebrand tradition to market, legally own and sell them better.

In the East, authors cite tradition to gain authenticiy & credibility.

[Ya Mu]

Do you have any experience with or know if stillness movement can deal with the issue Bruce Frantzis calls "fog" in his Water Method books ? where you dissociate and it's like your mind is in mist and you don't know your way out. This is a big issue of mine.

Yes, Stillness-Movement neigong can help with this as much as any other qigong or neigong system can.