Importance of yin ang yang

[exorcist_1699]

No matter how we emphasize, the importance of yin and yang in Taoist practice will never be exaggerated. As most people know, in Taoist theory , our existence is composed of qi (visible and materialized on a lower level as a physical body ) and spirit .While qi is said to be the yang side of us , the yin side points to the spirit of our existence , before its having reached Enlightenment .

 

Without the concentration and skillfully applications of our spirit , qi can't be initialized; on the other hand, , without the help of qi , our spirit can't be changed and upgraded to Shen / Enlightenment. The elevation and improvement of our spiritual power in the process, without the help of qi , will unlikely be everlasting ,and , probably generating some kinds of mental troubles, even disorders. The Chinese saying : " 道高一尺, 魔高一丈 " ( Any uplift of the force of Tao is overtaken /counteracted by the further enhancement of Evil) refers to this potential danger . On the contrary,the expansion and polishing of qi , without the help of a high-quality spirit, is impossible. And, incorrect spiritual instructions , for instance, thinking that we can deliberately circulate qi on some routes we prefer , likely lead us to disasters.

 

So, the balance of yin and yang is always crucial . Understanding of the theory enable us to anaylse troubles and act correctly in our practice ; its importance should never be underestimated .

Edited April 13, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[wudangspirit]

Some good points and totally agree! Shen in chinese means spirit. The duality of Yin and Yang in separation stages as described below is called Liang Yi. If we can return to Wuji through transmuting jing to qi and qi to shen we can eventually break out of the cycle and our spirit can be immortal.

 

The theory of creation applies to all things in existence. Wuji - Taiji - Liang Yi - Wuxing- Bagua - 10,000 things. So we have to go back to stillness. From stillness comes motion and perfect the quality then can be transmuted and eventually give birth to our spirit.

 

No matter how we emphasize, the importance of yin and yang in Taoist practice will never be exaggerated. As most people know, in Taoist theory , our existence is composed of qi (visible and materialized on a lower level as a physical body ) and spirit .While qi is said to be the yang side of us , the yin side points to the spirit of our existence , before its having reached Enlightenment .

 

Without the concentration and skillfully applications of our spirit , qi can't be initialized; on the other hand, , without the help of qi , our spirit can't be changed and upgraded to Shen / Enlightenment. The elevation and improvement of our spiritual power in the process, without the help of qi , will unlikely be everlasting ,and , probably generating some kinds of mental troubles, even disorders. The Chinese saying : " 道高一尺, 魔高一丈 " ( Any uplift of the force of Tao is overtaken /counteracted by the further enhancement of Evil) refers to this potential danger . On the contrary,the expansion and polishing of qi , without the help of a high-quality spirit, is impossible. And, incorrect spiritual instructions , for instance, thinking that we can deliberately circulate qi on some routes we prefer , likely lead us to disasters.

 

So, the balance of yin and yang is always crucial . Understanding of the theory enable us to anaylse troubles and act correctly in our practice ; its importance should never be underestimated .

[Iyoiyo]

Yin and Yang are important concepts, and I love the symbol. There is a pitfall though, right? By using our concise symbol it's easy to forget that Yin and Yang are just names, and that there are not simply two elements in existence. To me the key concept is that of shared existence, one cannot exist without the other. That and, nothing is wholly of one element. Everything has uncertain components, eh.

[wudangspirit]

I think it is important to note that what we call the "yin/ yang" symbol in the West is not a Yin/Yang it is called Taiji (Tai Chi). That will make more since to us if we explain the theory more by calling Yin and Yang separated as Liang Yi and so on and so forth.

 

Once the process of creation is formed then we will also understand the notion of "returning" as our goal is to become immortal. Getting from 10,000 myriad things to Taiji is quite a feat in itself.

 

 

 

Yin and Yang are important concepts, and I love the symbol. There is a pitfall though, right? By using our concise symbol it's easy to forget that Yin and Yang are just names, and that there are not simply two elements in existence. To me the key concept is that of shared existence, one cannot exist without the other. That and, nothing is wholly of one element. Everything has uncertain components, eh.

[exorcist_1699]

Understanding the yang and yin theory is said to be critical for the success of our cultivation . In fact, it refers to whether we can grasp the delicate , dynamic relation between qi and spirit . Many people know the effect

of spirit upon qi, yet how about qi 's reverse effect on spirit ?

 

Qi 's embodiment in our body is complicated : We have " guarding qi"(衛氣") located outside our body , performing as an invisible shield against diseases, we also have qi in every of our organs acting as a motivating force ; we have light and clear qi ("清氣 ") always afloat at the top of our body and some other turbid qi (" 濁氣" ) always descended to the bottom of our body. So, qi exists in various layers and locations of our body ,and perform different functions. When we talk about qi 's effect on spirit, what kind of qi , from where it is raised , are issues we have to pay attention to .

[Stigweard]

[Gerard]

Some good points and totally agree! Shen in chinese means spirit. The duality of Yin and Yang in separation stages as described below is called Liang Yi. If we can return to Wuji through transmuting jing to qi and qi to shen we can eventually break out of the cycle and our spirit can be immortal.

 

Your spirit is already immortal, another thing is the ability of the spirit to "survive" without a shell, which is what Taoists focus all their energies on: the ability to convert the spirit into Shen Ming; that is one capable of remaining free for eternity. If someone has attained this "immortal" spirit in life is called Xian and is able to remain in the physical for a long time due to the slowing down of the aging process.

 

The quality of rebirth is dependant upon how much we cultivate our spirits.

[Owledge]

Some raw thoughts...

 

I'm still in doubt about an 'automatic' counter-development of bad things when good things flourish... if you meant it that way, exorcist_1699.

 

Currently I view things from the perspective of the infamous unfairness of life which simply means that when forces grow stronger, they enable themselves to become stronger more easily and quickly. Thus when you just refuse to react negatively to negativity, you break this cycle and probably it is possible to enter an era of massive peace and love. The mechanism that too much evil can no longer be endured and will be harshly opposed at some point might apply to positives times, too, but I think that would just be because of deep fears of people addicted to negativity, because their identity is based on it. After all... good and evil in their extremes are not similar, because evil tends to cause death and misery which really can't be endured, but love is just so nice, you can't have enough of it.

 

I think this at least applies to this plane of existence. The fact that you can channel the energy of love from another realm gives confidence that we can flood this realm with it. It maybe just has to happen slow enough, so that it doesn't cause fear in those dependant on negativity.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Hardyg

[exorcist_1699]

To Stigweard:

 

Although some kind of lexicological analyze does help us understand some Chinese Taoist terms, I have to point out that , besides few words such as female("女") , male("男'), sun("日") , moon("月") ..which have definite yin or yang implication, most other words ' yin or yang character are not so absolute . We can't expect that the Chinese language is same as some Western language, for example, French, in which you have words clearly classified as masculine and feminine..

 

Whether a word or a thing is yin or yang is dependent on at which level it is used and what it is relative to .

For example, our physical body, because of having some form and substance , is said to be yin , relative to the invisible , energetic yang-qi that motivate it . However, in TCM , the physical body can further be divided into yin and yang : while shoulder and back is classified as yang, the chest and abdomen is yin . Those meridians mainly passing our back and shoulder are called yang-meridians...Such a further classification is not something arbitrary, but having pathological consideration. Of course, we are unable to go into details here.

 

So, our spirit , before having attained Shen or Enlightenment( a term borrowed from Buddhism) ,no matter what status it is in : consciousness, sub-consciousness, dreaming, intuition or mathematical reasoning...,as long as it is not nourished and united with high quality yang-qi, is classified as yin.

 

 

To Hardyg :

 

I think we can't get rid of evils through using evil ways; Evil can only be conquered by a virtuous way. The claim of killing innocent people in process of trying to do good things , the claim of fulfilling something moral at the expense of innocents are unjustified. However, here, my saying does have specific implication, i.e. in our cultivation, no matter how powerful our spiritual power becomes , as long as it is lack of the nourishment of yang-qi, such extreme yin-typed power will not make us live eternally , will not make us attain Shen (yang) . In Buddhist practice, they do have warnings against those people who have been possessed to giving forecasts to things happen in future , to those who have been addicted to writing thousands pieces of poems/essays per day, at certain stage of their practice. An achievement ? Yet they are called illness of Zen ("禪病") ,the worst of it can lead to mentally disorder...

Edited April 14, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Stigweard]

[exorcist_1699]

 

So applying this to your model of qi = yang and shen = yin am I right in saying that you are associating qi with the solar masculine energy and shen with the lunar feminine energy?

 

Contrary to the warm , magnificent and agreeable feelings that yang-qi gives us , our daily-life spirit is classified by Taoism as yin because of its loss in sensations, its trivial and short-lived , full of ups and downs, despairs and regrets...

 

Same as the jing-qi-shen framework ,the yin and yang theory in Taoism is crucial for understanding our practice . The theory also differentiates the Taoist practice from Buddhist ; as we know, in Buddhism, there is no yin and yang concepts . Understanding their differences is not for any sectarian evaluation , but for deeper understanding of what Taoist practice is .

 

In fact, their differences are expressed by Taoist in-depth criticisms on some potential dangers in Buddhist practice, as follows :

 

1) Without recognizing jing( in this case , not the visible sperm ) and qi, without the help of yang , Buddhist meditation is likely to fall into some kind of pseudo-void in which unproductive , stagnant stillness and quietness are mistakenly viewed as some sort of achievement, which unfortunately are not.

 

2) Although without the help of jing and qi we still can enhance our spiritual power by focusing on something, or visualizing something , without the nourishment of qi , without really smashing the emptiness, even if we have got some supernatural power , even if with our 3rd eyes openned, what we get can't be everlasting , let alone immortality ; besides . likely at the same time it will bring up something evil for good and evils are two-edges of the spiritual sword...

 

In fact , our spirit can be yin or yang. At post-heavenly level it is yin , at pre-heavenly level it is pure yang where jing, qi, shen are united , not separated .

Edited April 16, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Stigweard]

[exorcist_1699]

It is not the negative experiences of our life that makes our spirit yin , it is the degeneration/ embodiment of Tao in us , the separation of body and mind in our post-heavenly status , the alienation of them that makes our mind yin ; A yin- mind will inevitably make us lost in our sensations, in the turbulences of our environment , in dreaming, in noctural release of jing ...which further widen the gap between body and mind .

 

And, no matter what status of our mind is in ,even though we are enjoying our life or doing some mathematical reasoning about the origin of the cosmos, the deterioration of our mind , its gradual detachment from our body , is unchanged . And, without the undertsanding of the delicate theory of qi, never can any person 's destiny( toward death) be reversed .

 

One of the most important Taoist classics that talks about this issue is Huangdi Yin Fu Jin (" 黃帝陰符經"), which , unfortunately is nearly unknown to most Western readers. Anyway, you can still find some English translations of it by a google search , although mostly not so good...

Edited April 19, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Stigweard]

It is not the negative experiences of our life that makes our spirit yin , it is the degeneration/ embodiment of Tao in us , the separation of body and mind in our post-heavenly status , the alienation of them that makes our mind yin ; A yin- mind will inevitably make us lost in our sensations, in the turbulences of our environment , in dreaming, in noctural release of jing ...which further widen the gap between body and mind .

 

And, no matter what status of our mind is in ,even though we are enjoying our life or doing some mathematical reasoning about the origin of the cosmos, the deterioration of our mind , its gradual detachment from our body , is unchanged . And, without the undertsanding of the delicate theory of qi, never can any person 's destiny( toward death) be reversed .

 

One of the most important Taoist classics that talks about this issue is Huangdi Yin Fu Jin (" 黃帝陰符經"), which , unfortunately is nearly unknown to most Western readers. Anyway, you can still find some English translations of it by a google search , although mostly not so good...

Thank you again for the kind regard of your response, this has been a worthy discourse.

 

I certainly hear you that in the post-heaven 'environment' our mind, with all it's false associations and attachments, is most certainly within a degenerate yin cycle. And that, through the intrinsic process within nei tan of becoming intimate with the nature of qi, we can reintegrate our being into our pre-heaven nature.

 

It would seem our initial misunderstanding was due to my, perhaps incorrect, perception of there being a sliding scale difference between what I would call 'mind' and what I would call 'spirit' or Shen. However, if I am reading you correctly, what you call Shen would be rightly reffered to as spirit/mind ... is this correct?

 

Under the perception of Shen = spirit/mind then your statements are quite correct and accurate. The question that then follows is, under your perception, is there a more deeper spiritual essence then Shen? I am assuming that your answer would be qi ... is this correct? If so I would enjoy it if you would expand upon this.

 

And thank you for your referencing the Huangdi Yin Fu Jin, "Yellow Emperor's Hidden Talisman Classic" ... you are right, I had never heard of it before. Of course I am aware of the Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine (Huangdi neijing 黃帝內徑).

 

I found this site: http://home.comcast.net/~taoistresource/wdyfg.html ... is there more to the text? Is this translation accurate?

 

Cheers

[exorcist_1699]

Regarding the terms : I use mind/spirit without distinguish them , anyway , whatever used , it is classified as Yin.In fact, the term yin-mind (陰識) is widely used in Taoist and Buddhist writings , and it refers to our

present , daily life consciousness .

 

When I uses Shen or shen in the framework of jing-qi-shen, I refer to a Spirit which is a product of long time cultivation , a sublimation of jing and qi ,therefore it is yang in character . The term yang-Shen(陽神) is widely used in Taoist classics.

 

In my last post, body refers jing plus qi , not its external , physical form.

 

Regarding the mentioned Yin Fu Jin, I take a quick look at some English translations that I can find on the internet , however, because most of those translators are good at Chinese and English yet without Taoist practice, so the literal grasp of its meanings are always not precise.

 

Below are some of my rough translations of its famous statements :

 

- 人知其神而神，不知不神而所以神也( " People know what their mind are , yet they are ignorant of the mindless Mind behind them." )

 

- 心生于物，死于物 (" It is things that make our mind, yet it is things that makes us die. " )

 

- 万物，人之盗。人，万物之盗..擒之，制在炁 ( " Things secretly grasp qi and jing from us , conversely humans can grasp qi and jing from things...the key is how to use qi to manipulate " )

Edited April 20, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Stigweard]

Regarding the terms : I use mind/spirit without distinguish them , anyway , whatever used , it is classified as Yin.In fact, the term yin-mind (陰識) is widely used in Taoist and Buddhist writings , and it refers to our

present , daily life consciousness .

 

When I uses Shen or shen in the framework of jing-qi-shen, I refer to a Spirit which is a product of long time cultivation , a sublimation of jing and qi ,therefore it is yang in character . The term yang-Shen(陽神) is widely used in Taoist classics.

 

In my last post, body refers jing plus qi , not its external , physical form.

 

Regarding the mentioned Yin Fu Jin, I take a quick look at some English translations that I can find on the internet , however, because most of those translators are good at Chinese and English yet without Taoist practice, so the literal grasp of its meanings are always not precise.

 

Below are some of my rough translations of its famous statements :

 

- 人知其神而神，不知不神而所以神也( " People know what their mind are , yet they are ignorant of the mindless Mind behind them." )

 

- 心生于物，死于物 (" It is things that make our mind, yet it is things that makes us die. " )

 

- 万物，人之盗。人，万物之盗..擒之，制在炁 ( " Things secretly grasp qi and jing from us , conversely humans can grasp qi and jing from things...the key is how to use qi to manipulate " )

Thank you for your response. Your assertions that Shen = Yin has certainly given me a stimulus for further research and contemplation.

 

[forestofsouls]

The mindless mind: are you translating this from shen? Yang shen? Yuan shen?

 

 

 

- 人知其神而神，不知不神而所以神也( " People know what their mind are , yet they are ignorant of the mindless Mind behind them." )

 

- 心生于物，死于物 (" It is things that make our mind, yet it is things that makes us die. " )

 

- 万物，人之盗。人，万物之盗..擒之，制在炁 ( " Things secretly grasp qi and jing from us , conversely humans can grasp qi and jing from things...the key is how to use qi to manipulate " )

[lienshan]

[exorcist_1699]

The mindless mind: are you translating this from shen? Yang shen? Yuan shen?

The initial stage of having a mindless mind, of course can't be said to be a Yang-shen（陽神) or Yuan-shen（元神）　 . Only after having experienced a process of purifying , restructuring and awakening , does the mind become Yang-shen or Yuan-shen .

 

When we use the term Yang-shen ,we emphasize the bright,warm and magnificent features of this big hidden Mind behind us .This mind is also qi-based , nourished by yang-qi for wherever there is yang-qi, there is life.

 

When we use the term Yuan-shen ,we emphasize the fundamnental character of this Mind as the source of our daily-life trivial mind. Of course, just like water in a sticky , muddy pool , without a processing of purifying and condensing, never can you see water appear from it .

Edited April 21, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[forestofsouls]

So... it's not that the different shen's exist all at once--- but that these are different states or stages.

 

The mindless mind sounds like the I AM.

[exorcist_1699]

So... it's not that the different shen's exist all at once--- but that these are different states or stages.

The mindless mind sounds like the I AM.

Yeah, Yuan Shen and Yang Shen are different terms for the same thing.

 

Thinking that our ying-mind, just sitting there still for hours, even days , using all sorts of methods ( visualization, viewing emptiness, moon viewing , asking silly questions such as "who am I" ?....etc ) , then without the help of jing and qi , without the help of yang , can abruptly become Enlightened , attain an omnipotent Mind solving all sufferings in our life ,seems too naive unless you are very gifted guys .... In fact, the history of the development of Zen in China already proved that it is not possible ...besides, compared with the past , we are in a much materialized world . Much more knowledge and contact with things do not necessarily make us more intelligent.

Edited April 22, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[forestofsouls]

In fact, the history of the development of Zen in China already proved that it is not possible ...

 

How so?

 

Also, why do you feel all these other methods won't work? What method do you think WILL work?

Edited April 22, 2009 by forestofsouls

[exorcist_1699]

How so?

 

Also, why do you feel all these other methods won't work? What method do you think WILL work?

Our mind and the whole body , in our present ,post-heavenly status , are yin in character . If we attach to them , say, by using our yin-mind to focus on somewhere in our body ... it is unlikely that we can nourish from it anything really yang , anything spendid and everlasting...

 

Fortunately , hidden somewhere around us is the yang-jing("陽精") that, by digging it out , and reversely

turning it upward , we can transform our yin-mind into a yang-mind ( the famous saying is : making use of yang in the trigram Kan so as to transform the yin in the trigram Li into yang ) ,and begin our way of jing-qi-shen...

 

Of course, it is a way totally different from visualization in which people just try their best in expanding the power of their yin-mind....

[forestofsouls]

exorcist,

 

I find what you say interesting. Not found in the body-mind, that sounds right.

 

I don't suppose you want to tell us the correct methods from your POV? I have an inkling, but would like your perspective.

[exorcist_1699]

Edited April 24, 2009 by exorcist_1699