Hi....Cultivating Sambhogakaya right now

[blissful]

Hi All,

 

I am practicing emptiness meditation for about a year now. Before that I pursued Bhakti practices for about 2 years. I guess, I gradually moved to the universality of meditation...listening to various teaches, masters, etc.

 

I must say I am utterly grateful to have found Bill Bodri (I know some of you in here do not like him that much!...But, anyways) and his MeditationExpert website. (Never met or talked to him, though...only read his stuff!)

 

I have been following his articles since then...those materials I have yet to encounter elsewhere on the web or in books....Anyways, enough of praise!

 

My body has been slowly developing the Sambhogakaya as mentioned in Mahayana. It is basically an extension of the heart chakra (it opens at the back to a huge diameter, extending to about a feet outside the body all round in a circle) and the crown chakra.

 

Initially when I read Bill's articles, I thought that this guy must be crazy!..I was all satisfied with Chakras being depicted as "Energy Centers" by most authors. And there it was this guy, saying the chakras were pumps to pour out the junk out of the body....I thought what junk?...Where?

 

Then everything started slowly. First the energy (Qi/chi) hits the top of the head to create a tiny hole in the skull. Then another opening opens at the back of it (as Bill called Buddharandra). By the way, the Qi when it hits the head it creates a bump in the top of the head...So, it's the real thing!....(All of Buddha's pictures also show this bump on the head). When the Chi hits the top, I felt excruciating pain. It almost felt like, someone drew a red hot iron rod from the inside of my skull. I shivered in pain!

 

Then the fun (actually not so fun...a painstakingly long process) of emptying the body.

 

The body is made of the 5 (or 4 as somebody others say...Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Ether/Space) elements as all of you know. When cultivating emptiness, the body starts disintegrating into its original ingredients. The chakras then unwind again and again and again (for the nth time) to reveal their original structures and their pumps. Then the body starts to empty itself through the holes at the top of the head.

 

When the chakras start emptying, it feels that hot liquid is firts coming out of them...pouring downwards. It is actually the fire and the Water elements together. One will feel the hotness of that water. Then the earth element (in the form of sand grains) starts pouring out of them. The wind element is the wind chi (fan chi)....leaving behind space of emptiness.

 

I am sure, many of you have experienced all these. But still I am saying all these in the hope, that somebody, somewhere might read this and this might help him in the process.

 

In order to understand emptiness, one has to slowly loosen oneself from all kinds of attachments.

 

When all these elements started to come out of my body, I could very easily understand (realize) that I am not this body. How could I? All these are coming out of this body; yet, I still feel like me. So these elements must not be me.

 

At a certain point in cultivation, one can actually see emptiness. One can see that emptiness inside ones body (after one has cleared everything out of his head..nothing inside).

 

Anyways, are there some folks in here that have attained Sambhogakya and proceeded further? I am asking in order to know what to look out for? Bill does not talk much about Nirmanakaya.

 

Please reply.

 

Thanks for patiently reading all these!

[trailmaker]

Hi All,

 

I am practicing emptiness meditation for about a year now. Before that I pursued Bhakti practices for about 2 years. I guess, I gradually moved to the universality of meditation...listening to various teaches, masters, etc.

 

I must say I am utterly grateful to have found Bill Bodri (I know some of you in here do not like him that much!...But, anyways) and his MeditationExpert website. (Never met or talked to him, though...only read his stuff!)

 

I have been following his articles since then...those materials I have yet to encounter elsewhere on the web or in books....Anyways, enough of praise!

 

My body has been slowly developing the Sambhogakaya as mentioned in Mahayana. It is basically an extension of the heart chakra (it opens at the back to a huge diameter, extending to about a feet outside the body all round in a circle) and the crown chakra.

 

Initially when I read Bill's articles, I thought that this guy must be crazy!..I was all satisfied with Chakras being depicted as "Energy Centers" by most authors. And there it was this guy, saying the chakras were pumps to pour out the junk out of the body....I thought what junk?...Where?

 

Then everything started slowly. First the energy (Qi/chi) hits the top of the head to create a tiny hole in the skull. Then another opening opens at the back of it (as Bill called Buddharandra). By the way, the Qi when it hits the head it creates a bump in the top of the head...So, it's the real thing!....(All of Buddha's pictures also show this bump on the head). When the Chi hits the top, I felt excruciating pain. It almost felt like, someone drew a red hot iron rod from the inside of my skull. I shivered in pain!

 

Then the fun (actually not so fun...a painstakingly long process) of emptying the body.

 

The body is made of the 5 (or 4 as somebody others say...Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Ether/Space) elements as all of you know. When cultivating emptiness, the body starts disintegrating into its original ingredients. The chakras then unwind again and again and again (for the nth time) to reveal their original structures and their pumps. Then the body starts to empty itself through the holes at the top of the head.

 

When the chakras start emptying, it feels that hot liquid is firts coming out of them...pouring downwards. It is actually the fire and the Water elements together. One will feel the hotness of that water. Then the earth element (in the form of sand grains) starts pouring out of them. The wind element is the wind chi (fan chi)....leaving behind space of emptiness.

 

I am sure, many of you have experienced all these. But still I am saying all these in the hope, that somebody, somewhere might read this and this might help him in the process.

 

In order to understand emptiness, one has to slowly loosen oneself from all kinds of attachments.

 

When all these elements started to come out of my body, I could very easily understand (realize) that I am not this body. How could I? All these are coming out of this body; yet, I still feel like me. So these elements must not be me.

 

At a certain point in cultivation, one can actually see emptiness. One can see that emptiness inside ones body (after one has cleared everything out of his head..nothing inside).

 

Anyways, are there some folks in here that have attained Sambhogakya and proceeded further? I am asking in order to know what to look out for? Bill does not talk much about Nirmanakaya.

 

Please reply.

 

Thanks for patiently reading all these!

 

 

seems a common experience to attain that - catch the fleeting instant?

 

no patience required in reading the above, sounds like you have come to a good place.

 

welcome. proceed, and have a good time.

[blissful]

seems a common experience to attain that - catch the fleeting instant?

 

no patience required in reading the above, sounds like you have come to a good place.

 

welcome. proceed, and have a good time.

 

Thanks....What's next?

[Stigweard]

[blissful]

[sheng zhen]

Welcome!

 

Very inspiring to read your description of emptiness meditation progress. Makes me want to read more from meditationexpert.

[Stigweard]

What tea? The cup is already empty!

Let me fill it for you then:

 

 

[blissful]

Let me fill it for you then:

 

 

 

Ahh...Tastes good.

 

The skies are blue, blue is the mind. Dark are the clouds, dark is the mind;

Can one live without the other?

If you say yes, three hits on your head. If you say no, three hits for you and everybody else.

 

blissful's comment: Is there any "other"? Is there "any" at all?

[blissful]

Welcome!

 

Very inspiring to read your description of emptiness meditation progress. Makes me want to read more from meditationexpert.

 

That was the purpose of my detailed discussion...To inspire somebody else. The emptiness meditation is very real. The internal gung-fu is very real too.

 

In the Sambhogakaya stage you will discover the ties/bonds of Karma (well, going by what Bill says). There are several nets (similar to fish nets) binding the brain/crown chakra. There are several hollow white channels that bind the body, in the inside; as well as on the outside. The ones inside the head are very difficult to cut...thick....When you cut them it just feels like a rubber band; with its reflex it flies out of the body. The ones outside the body are very fine. The chi can actually travel through these fine channels outside the body and to different parts of the body, to the nose, to the feet (all channels are on the outside of the body). By using the mind and the chi, one has to cut all these bonds...Hundreds and thousands of them; binding everywhere, everything. I am still cutting these....more and more everyday.

 

 

Another purpose for me to post my experience it here was to know the road that lies in front of me from other experienced emptiness practitioners in here. Alas! Haven't heard from any till now who answered my initial questions as to what Gung-Fu to expect further if I continue Emptiness Meditation.

 

Samadhi? I think I am slowly getting into it. I have experienced few occasions, where I "woke" up from meditation. I did not know where I was, what I was doing. Suddenly I woke up. Small spells of those...30 min to 1 hour.

 

I do not think I was sleeping while doing meditation, as I could wake up...not like waking up after hearing the alarm clock in the morning!

 

Anyways...Not clinging to anything is probably the key. Anything that develops inside the body, or disappears, is not the real Me. The body is not me. The subtle body (inside the body..oh yes...there's that one for everybody...whether they cultivate or not!) is not the me. The Sambhogakaya is not me...as it developed inside me. I had the same feeling of "I"-ness before it was there...and the same I-ness after it developed. So none of it is the real me. One must use this kind of insight while practicing; otherwise he will cling to form and sensations.

[sheng zhen]

So none of it is the real me. One must use this kind of insight while practicing; otherwise he will cling to form and sensations.

I had to use my "extremely high level google-gong-fu" to look up samboghakaya. All these fancy words... with many different levels of interpretation. Some people say it is enjoyment body, others say it is bliss body, others say it is buddahs body appearing to you, or deities appearing in visualizations, or just that your thoughts are positive.

 

I love stillness meditation above all else! Been doing it for 4 years now. I stopped all visualization, energywork, and controlling, and started to do just stillness meditation. Just listening to the stillness, breathing stillness. My experience is that my development has become more deep, more balanced, more healing, more awakened, more enjoyable, and more of everything I was trying to create with energywork. With energywork it seems you just deal with symptoms, and this dealing create other symtoms, which in turn creates other symptoms. But with stillness meditation it seems you allow the bodys innate intelligence to do its job in communication with the universal intelligence. What can be more rewarding?

 

And I know what you mean, if I cling to sensations my meditation and development stops immediately. No matter how good it feels or how interesting they are. After many years and many retreats I have realized this fact. Nodays I dont care so much about experiences, only stillness.

 

Edit: I see the trikaya now, in relation to my experience. I think. Body intelligence: Nimanakaya. Universal intelligence: Dharmakaya. And then we experience Sambaghakaya inbetween. It is atleast one level of interpretation.

Edited April 15, 2009 by sheng zhen

[blissful]

I had to use my "extremely high level google-gong-fu" to look up samboghakaya. All these fancy words... with many different levels of interpretation. Some people say it is enjoyment body, others say it is bliss body, others say it is buddahs body appearing to you, or deities appearing in visualizations, or just that your thoughts are positive.

 

I love stillness meditation above all else! Been doing it for 4 years now. I stopped all visualization, energywork, and controlling, and started to do just stillness meditation. Just listening to the stillness, breathing stillness. My experience is that my development has become more deep, more balanced, more healing, more awakened, more enjoyable, and more of everything I was trying to create with energywork. With energywork it seems you just deal with symptoms, and this dealing create other symtoms, which in turn creates other symptoms. But with stillness meditation it seems you allow the bodys innate intelligence to do its job in communication with the universal intelligence. What can be more rewarding?

 

And I know what you mean, if I cling to sensations my meditation and development stops immediately. No matter how good it feels or how interesting they are. After many years and many retreats I have realized this fact. Nodays I dont care so much about experiences, only stillness.

 

Edit: I see the trikaya now, in relation to my experience. I think. Body intelligence: Nimanakaya. Universal intelligence: Dharmakaya. And then we experience Sambaghakaya inbetween. It is atleast one level of interpretation.

 

 

That's what I have been doing....No visualization...In this regard I am a little bit off from Bodri's Skeleton Meditation.

 

Once the holes were created on the top of the head/skull, one can see very bright white light outside of the body. Nowadays, I only "look" at that light while meditating. It stops the mind from wandering here and there.

 

After emptying the head (or at least when emptying the head), one can see a clear light inside the head.

 

Anyways, all this "looking" also has to stop at one point. I think I am nearing that point.

 

The trikaya are more than the literary jargon. They are actual bodies (kayas).

 

The Sambhogakaya is the Reward Body/Enjoyment Body/(Rainbow Body?), etc. Looking at a few Buddha Sambhogakaya images, one can correlate them to the enormous expansions of the heart and crown chakra outside the body.

 

Here's a few images of Sambhogakaya.

 

 

 

Notice how the origin of these expansions (in these images) are at the centers of the heart and at the crown chakras.

 

The channels of the heart chakra feels like huge fluttering hands/expansions from the body. From these images we can see the different alternate colors of the expansions....indicating these separate channels.

 

Anyways....I think my best bet now would be to read more of Bodri; as it seems he is the only one to tell what more to expect! (The advanced Taobums have sealed their mouths ).