Nature of Practice

[Lucky7Strikes]

Hi everyone!

 

I've never posted on this site before. Only read through it on various topics. I have been practicing Kunlun for the past 8 months. Met Max twice. But I recently realized that no physical spiritual method can be truly beneficial as long as I have the ego. Here's my 2 cents. I hope the following discussions don't go around Kunlun too much, but other practices as well. I just relate it to Kunlun because that has been my main practice. It turned out to be a lot longer than I thought, please bear with me.

 

Like most have said before me, Kunlun as a method is powerful, but taught in a misleading way. This has been the consensus ever since the practice was introduced. Not many people liked how Chris sold it or how it was all for the "bliss." In fact, one of the reasons Max said he was quitting was because he realized that many are drawn to the pleasurable side effects and not to its ultimate purpose.

 

I dare say this is the problem in many Eastern "spiritual" practices including Yoga, Tai chi, Kung Fu etc. The benefits are there but I believe the practices themselves mislead the students. They end up feeding the ego when certain powers and abilities are attained by the practitioner. Or more often, damaging the ego when the practitioner experiences frustration in not being able to measure up to the practices themselves.

 

The great mistake many practitioners make therefore is beginning with the attitude of the selfish ego still intact. Most do so with everything else in life. Yet, looking through the past messages of so-called enlightened teachers (I'm speaking mainly about the likes of Ramana Maharshi or even Krishnamurti. Be happy to object.) or the holy scriptures of various religions throughout history, I found that the questions, "Who are you?" "Who is it that seeks?" are highly emphasized beyond any certain methods (Or in the case of "religious" texts, to give oneself totally to the supreme God/Tao/Brahman/etc. by realizing that one is already one with It).

 

What does this have to do with Kunlun? In my experience, Kunlun powerfully eradicates this sense of the ego and the self-image as traditionally identified with the mind-body. The mind-body consciousness one is accustomed to is forcefully stripped away because the practice is so demanding. The habit of having a ego however will try to hold on to the sense of "I." Consequently, its past confusions and contradictions will show as/become a victim to negative entities, demons, visions, and so forth. I think this is where people start having a wide variety of experiences.

 

Max does encourage this by telling one to surrender. This is nonetheless as contradicting as trying to subdue rising thoughts in meditation through more thoughts. Kunlun is powerful enough to penetrate the grasping of the ego on the body, but I believe that it will never lead to liberation or even continual bliss for this very reason: Anything done from the perspective of an imagined "doer" will eventually lead to more and more struggles. I'm not sure if Max even recognizes this because he has become so powerful and has had such a unique life. Although I really don't doubt his good intentions towards others, (and I think he has realized this too as can be noted in his decision to stop teaching) Kunlun can easily be destructive and misused.

 

This is not to say practices like meditation or Tai Chi should be limited only to those who feel completely secure in it. My take on many of these practices is that they are there to HEAL all the accumulations one has built up from the past from the false identification with an imaginary entity called the "I." What is happening in many cases with these practices in modern culture is that people are adding more to the ego believing that they will become like the guru/teacher. The methods are supposed to help find the person find his own true path through life in general. A lot of people are taking the wrong medicine or doing the whole process backwards because these methods have become so commercialized. Essentially, there should be liberation from the ego identification BEFORE any sort of healing can take place in its true form. Everything will become absolutely effortless in that state of mind. Think of the Zen master who is totally himself at all times.

 

I would advise anyone who is new to Kunlun or any art to totally give into self-inquiry before deciding on a path (or even a life purpose...actually, is there a difference?). Break yourself down. Who are you? Your thoughts? Your body? It is the most relevant question not only to the members of this community but to mankind. As long as one is willing to be totally sincere and honest in that search (which I think can happen as quickly as telling someone that "it is as it is" or "everything's simply in motion"), I don't think it won't be too hard.

 

Well, thank you for reading!

 

 

One final note: I think there was a very wise man on this forum named fatherpaul who always pointed out the hypocrisy of many of the "practitioners" in these simple words and more: Who is it that practices?

Edited April 15, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[Stigweard]

Cheers for this

[forestofsouls]

Nice post.

 

Like most have said before me, Kunlun as a method is powerful, but taught in a misleading way. This has been the consensus ever since the practice was introduced. Not many people liked how Chris sold it or how it was all for the "bliss." In fact, one of the reasons Max said he was quitting was because he realized that many are drawn to the pleasurable side effects and not to its ultimate purpose.

 

This always strikes me as odd. People who sell spirituality, especially the spiritual powers sideshow part of it, should not be surprised when they attract people who are in it for the spiritual powers. It suggests to me a basic ignorance of fundamental human mechanics--- i.e. the inside view of how the mind operates.

 

I dare say this is the problem in many Eastern "spiritual" practices including Yoga, Tai chi, Kung Fu etc. The benefits are there but I believe the practices themselves mislead the students. They end up feeding the ego when certain powers and abilities are attained by the practitioner. Or more often, damaging the ego when the practitioner experiences frustration in not being able to measure up to the practices themselves.

 

I've noticed this, too.

 

The great mistake many practitioners make therefore is beginning with the attitude of the selfish ego still intact. Most do so with everything else in life. Yet, looking through the past messages of so-called enlightened teachers (I'm speaking mainly about the likes of Ramana Maharshi or even Krishnamurti. Be happy to object.) or the holy scriptures of various religions throughout history, I found that the questions, "Who are you?" "Who is it that seeks?" are highly emphasized beyond any certain methods (Or in the case of "religious" texts, to give oneself totally to the supreme God/Tao/Brahman/etc. by realizing that one is already one with It).

 

Chan and Zen also.

 

A lot of people are taking the wrong medicine or doing the whole process backwards because these methods have become so commercialized. Essentially, there should be liberation from the ego identification BEFORE any sort of healing can take place in its true form. Everything will become absolutely effortless in that state of mind. Think of the Zen master who is totally himself at all times.

 

I.e., spiritual materialism.

 

I would advise anyone who is new to Kunlun or any art to totally give into self-inquiry before deciding on a path (or even a life purpose...actually, is there a difference?). Break yourself down. Who are you? Your thoughts? Your body? It is the most relevant question not only to the members of this community but to mankind. As long as one is willing to be totally sincere and honest in that search (which I think can happen as quickly as telling someone that "it is as it is" or "everything's simply in motion"), I don't think it won't be too hard.

 

This seems to strike to the heart of the problem I have seen in many Western practitioners (to include myself). Many Taoists seem to be looking for power, many Buddhists for psychological fulfillment. I do disagree with the ease, often promoted by the neo-advaitists. A usual practice for beginners new to relaxation is to have them tense the muscle in order to release it. How can one understand non-being, non-self, non-practice without first realizing being, self, and practice? Maybe one in a million can do that. In nature, there is a season for everything.

 

I've noticed often overlooked components of Sri Ramana's teaching:

 

1) The need for concentration. To quote Sri Sadhu Om: "it would be wise ... to gain the power of one-pointedness by practising self-attention instead from the very beginning."

 

2) Self-enquiry is the jnana part of the path. There is also a part two, the path of bhakti and self-surrender.

 

I think these are like yang and yin methods-- complementary and balancing to each other.

Edited April 16, 2009 by forestofsouls

[Lucky7Strikes]

I agree with you that the Neo-Advaita teachings are too...simplified and in many ways incomplete. But maybe that simplicity is more suitable for today's world, since there are already so many people of different backgrounds seeking spiritual attainment.

 

And I think the sheer amount of information available today can easily become a burden for someone who becomes interested in spirituality and religion (as it did to me). In addition to that, a lot of the ancient teachings were arranged in a certain way because they were taught to people of different social status/level of spiritual maturity. All this = confusion, frustration, more damage to the self image, "screw it, it's all bogus."

 

I see things somewhat differently regarding the idea of what today's "beginners" should be taught. A lot of people already have very tense muscles and these get tenser and tenser until the practitioner refuses to accept the idea that there is no personal ego because so much effort has been put in. I mean if I put all this effort into achieving a certain yogic posture for the past 2-3 years, believing that it will empower me, and someone tells me that there is no "me" I'd be pissed off and just go into straight denial.

 

Imho I think the basis for most spiritual practices should be the search into the entity of the seeker in the first place. It just makes more relevant sense today.

 

And just as a side note, my knowledge of the scriptures and traditional teachings are no where near some of the people on the site. So please correct me if I'm wrong in my very sweeping generalizations.

[flow]

Good post.

 

In fact, one of the reasons Max said he was quitting was because he realized that many are drawn to the pleasurable side effects and not to its ultimate purpose

 

Adyashanti has a free download called spritual additiction that talks about chasing after the pleasurable aspects of practices.

 

Search for spritual additiction at

http://www.adyashanti.org/cafedharma/index...e=library_audio

Edited April 16, 2009 by flow

[gendao]

I dare say this is the problem in many Eastern "spiritual" practices including Yoga, Tai chi, Kung Fu etc. The benefits are there but I believe the practices themselves mislead the students. They end up feeding the ego when certain powers and abilities are attained by the practitioner. Or more often, damaging the ego when the practitioner experiences frustration in not being able to measure up to the practices themselves.

Well, there are many "no frills" austere, ascetic practices like Zen contemplation and such...that focus on "starving your ego" to delocalize your awareness.

 

But, these seem to attract less interest than "flashier" methods. So, if "power" methods seem more popular, it is through natural selection by popular choice.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Starving the ego may have been effective back in the day when people had simpler lives. In today's world where everyone's egos have been so developed and victimized, the effort will most likely conjure up more negativity. Even Zen practices may be easily misinterpreted when done from the perspective of the "I." I think the process happens automatically when one instantly realizes the paradox of the ego's existence and activities. Many people on the forum are still struggling with the concept no matter how much power they attain through the practices. Is this due to Karma or some divine will? Ha ha...I don't know.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes