How to practice Zazen

[Squatting Monkey]

Check this guy out. Gudo Nishijima

No nonsense meditation.

[Sunya]

nice

[Zensunni Wanderer]

Gudo Nishijima is....How to put this? Sort of a controversial teacher in the Zen world at large. He teaches a very dumbed down version of Soto Zen Buddhism and presents some very controversial theories as authentic Buddhist teachings. I'm not saying he has nothing of value to teach; he does. But I'd advise you take what he says with a grain of salt.

[Aetherous]

What's an example of a non dumbed down version of Soto Zen?

[Squatting Monkey]

Well, I've heard nothing but praise for him from other zen folks.

By dumbed down do you mean because his style is more suited to western lay practitioners ?

If this is so, I see nothing wrong.

In the link I provided, the instructions on how to practice zazen are the most informative I've seen.

If it gets more people to sit on the cushion regularly, that can only be a good thing.

I've had enough of sectarian politics in spiritual/religious and martial circles.

[Zensunni Wanderer]

By "dumbed down" I mean reduces milenia of Buddhist practice and thought to a very specific definition of Shikantaza based on a very selective reading of Dogen Kigen. And Nishijima's about as sectarian as it gets (says Tibetan Buddhism isn't real Buddhism, etc), so I'm not sure why you'd be into the guy if you want to avoid sectarian politics. And if you don't want politics, I'd also stay away from Nishijima's Dogen Sangha, which in recent years has been semi-infamous for senior students leaving and infighting.

 

I think he's had some interesting and useful ideas, e.g. the middle way between idealism and materialism, and the autonomic nervous system, but he has a bad habit of just pre-emptively declaring his hypthises to be facts.

[nightwatchdog]

Thank you for the link. A very straight forward explanation that I shall share with others.

[Aetherous]

By "dumbed down" I mean reduces milenia of Buddhist practice and thought to a very specific definition of Shikantaza based on a very selective reading of Dogen Kigen.

 

Well, Dogen is a little hard to understand sometimes.

 

I was actually interested when I asked for an example of not dumbed down Soto Zen. Does such a thing exist for Westerners, who have to rely on translations in books?

[Zensunni Wanderer]

Well, Dogen is a little hard to understand sometimes.

 

I was actually interested when I asked for an example of not dumbed down Soto Zen. Does such a thing exist for Westerners, who have to rely on translations in books?

 

Sorry, I missed the 'non' in your earlier reply.

 

Anyway, yeah, I agree with both your points to some extent. Dogen is a lot to chew on. All the Kamakura reformers (Nichiren, Kukai, Shinran, Dogen) had a lot to say and their followers often feel the need, rightly or wrongly, to simplify it. And since we're at the mercy of translations, there is a certain amount we will miss out on if we can't study (for example) medieval Japanese language and culture in excruciating detail.

 

However, this is also true in Asia. Most Japanese today can't read Dogen's work in its original, any more than the average American could understand Beowulf in its original Anglo-Saxon vernacular. They'll recognize certain characters, but it won't be meaningful. Most Chinese would have difficulty reading the original Chinese version of Mahayana sutras, and most people in Theravada countries can't read Pali. We're all somewhat at the mercy of translation, east or west.

 

At the same time, we do have some pretty good work on Dogen; I'd recommend reading Kim's study of his life and ideas if you want a scholarly take on it. Now, Dogen is not a teacher in the lineage I study with, but I do respect some of the insights he had. And I think it does him a dis-service to claim that he said that Buddhism was just zazen and zazen was just Buddhism. It's a bit more complex than that, even though he does advocate zazen very strongly. Nishijima I think oversimplifies this point, and at the detriment of practice. He also dishonestly downplays several things Dogen was very hard core about, such as the importance of monasticism, the importance of sutras, and the need to observe Buddhist precepts. There have been other Soto teachers in the west, such as Dainin Katagiri, who also put emphasis on shinkantaza but didn't selectively throw out a lot of vital Buddhist concepts. Master Sheng Yen, from China, traced his lineage through Soto and Rinzai, and taught shinkantza along with other methods in the context of a larger, holistic practice of Buddhism.

[Squatting Monkey]

I also think that it's also good to have different interpretations of Dogen's work. Nishijima's interpretations may differ from mainstream Soto Zen, but that doesn't mean that his is wrong(or right !).

Look at how many versions there are of the Tao Te Ching for example.

I'm not here to defend anyone or knock anyone either.

I have only been recently introduced to Nishijima's work and as I said earlier, I think his explanation of zazen is the best I have seen so far.

There's a lot of choice nowadays and I was just trying to make this valuable information available to anyone who may be interested.

[Zensunni Wanderer]

Yeah, and that's fair enough. Nishijima is good at teaching a certain very specific meditative system. All I'm saying is that when he starts saying that this is the same meditation taught by the historical Buddha, the scientifically sound re-alignment of the nervous system, and the only form of True Buddhism, don't be too quick to believe him.

[Squatting Monkey]

Nice avatar by the way !

[lifeforce]

This is indeed one of the simplest but informative explanations of Zazen I've come across. It's absolutely wonderful. The essence of Zen which is so often overlooked in favour of sutra study and recitation.

Thank you for sharing this video.

[goldisheavy]

What's an example of a non dumbed down version of Soto Zen?

 

 

Read the writings of the founder, Dogen Zenji. There is no substitute. Why would you read anything else if you cared about Soto Zen?

 

http://www.wwzc.org/translations/oZanmai.htm

 

http://www.wwzc.org/translations/zazengi.htm

 

http://www.wwzc.org/translations/genjokoan.htm

 

http://www.wwzc.org/translations/kuge.htm

 

These are some of the writings of the founder of the Soto sect. And I believe these are good translations too.

 

Always go to the source.

 

Well, Dogen is a little hard to understand sometimes.

 

It's not hard if you meditate and contemplate a lot. You can try asking questions if you have trouble understanding Dogen.

 

I can't say I understand everything Dogen has to say, but if I see a question, I might try to help. I am sure there are some others here who could help too. Alternatively you can try contacting some established Soto Zen masters with your questions. Many of them would be happy to help you if your questions are sincere and you're not just entertaining idle curiosity.

 

 

Don't be scared of Dogen. Even if you can't eat Dogen in a single meal, take a bite anyway.

[xabir2005]

Dogen's insights are very deep... profound... not always easily understandable but definitely worth exploring.