Taming the Mind

[Long Yun]

I've been inquiring a bit as to how to begin taming the mind. As far as I know, this is what I need to do before even considering learning Internal Alchemy.

 

So, I was wondering what methods you all have used or would recommend. Any help would be greatly appreciated, seriously

 

And the method I've been considering is that mentioned in the Cleary translation of "Secret of the Golden Flower" That method consists of first listening to the soundlessness of subtle breathing. Then, by using awareness to seek the source of awareness. When the practitioner realizes that the source of awareness cannot be found, the mind will be pacified. When a thought arises, trace it back. When realization occurs again, sit in the subsequent stillness. When a thought arises again, pursue it back. Etc. Does this sound like a good method?

 

I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I found this one to be interesting, awareness watching awareness: http://albigen.com/uarelove/awa_instructions.aspx

 

Then there are lots of various other kinds of ways similar to that. You can pretty much just sit and watch your thoughts arise, see where they go, see where they come from, see how they dissipate. Once you become familiar with how your thoughts work, you learn to become aware of when your thoughts start running amok. Then just "let go" of those thoughts. I guess each person is different, but everyone will find their own way of "letting go", be it with a visualization or with something else.

 

Anyway, once you figure out a method that works for you.... keep using that method until you have tamed the mind! Or something

[Ya Mu]

Stop indulging in your thoughts. Stopping the World comes later.

[DaoChild]

Or, perhaps: To the Mind that is Still, the whole Universe Surrenders

[goldisheavy]

I've been inquiring a bit as to how to begin taming the mind. As far as I know, this is what I need to do before even considering learning Internal Alchemy.

 

So, I was wondering what methods you all have used or would recommend. Any help would be greatly appreciated, seriously

 

And the method I've been considering is that mentioned in the Cleary translation of "Secret of the Golden Flower" That method consists of first listening to the soundlessness of subtle breathing. Then, by using awareness to seek the source of awareness. When the practitioner realizes that the source of awareness cannot be found, the mind will be pacified. When a thought arises, trace it back. When realization occurs again, sit in the subsequent stillness. When a thought arises again, pursue it back. Etc. Does this sound like a good method?

 

I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks.

 

That's funny. If you tame the mind, it sounds like the mind is like an object to you. But the mind is not an object! The mind is also what does the taming. So if what does the taming is not already tame, then you are screwed, arencha? Even if you take ordinary tamers, the kind that work in a circus, imagine if they tried to tame the tiger while their own minds were not tame?

 

This is why I always say you have to contemplate. If you just think a little bit about what you are trying to do, like what IS mind, etc... then maybe you wouldn't be trying to tame it.

 

That said, instead of taming the mind you can pacify the appearances. In order to pacify the appearances, you have to understand where the distress (lack of peace) comes from. Once you understand the root cause of distress, then what needs to happen in order for appearances to become pacified will become obvious.

 

Also, have you read Zhuangzi at all? In particular, have you read this passage:

 

Yang Tzu-chu6 went to see Lao Tan and said, "Here is a man swift as an echo, strong as a beam, with a wonderfully clear understanding of the principles of things, studying the Way without ever letting up - a man like this could compare with an enlightened king, couldn't he?"

 

Lao Tan said, "In comparison to the sage, a man like this is a drudging slave, a craftsman bound to his calling, wearing out his body, grieving his mind. They say it is the beautiful markings of the tiger and the leopard that call out the hunters, the nimbleness of the monkey and the ability of the dog to catch rats' that make them end up chained. A man like this - how could he compare to an enlightened king?"

 

Yang Tzu-chu, much taken aback, said, "May I venture to ask about the government of the enlightened king?"

 

Lao Tan said, "The government of the enlightened king? His achievements blanket the world but appear not to be his own doing. His transforming influence touches the ten thousand things but the people do not depend on him. With him there is no promotion or praise - he lets everything find its own enjoyment. He takes his stand on what cannot be fathomed and wanders where there is nothing at all."

 

This says something about taming.

 

On the Zen side of things, Suzuki Roshi said "To control your cow, give it a bigger pasture." I think that's good advice.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

do you mean in another word that you want to get rid of your heart devil?

 

(heart devil is a term used in taoism)

[sinno]

the relaxation response

 

http://relaxationresponse.org/steps/

 

i think this is along the lines of what you looking for...i use this everyday...its great for developing inner silence

 

im about to start using the Soham mantra for Self-Realization also..its vibration is already apart of the breath so its easy to get into i had a good experience with it the one time i used it...you should look it up...doing the Secret Smile before all of these helps also

Edited April 22, 2009 by sinno

[松永道]

Attending a vipassana retreat is one of the best ways I know to get a foot hold.

 

Many techniques settle the mind, some artificial, some natural. Artificial ones include counting, mantra, etc. Natural ones are watching the breath, increasing awareness of sensation, letting go of thoughts as they come.

 

More than anything else, regular practice is required. Settling the mind is like digging a whole in the sand. Dig ten feet one day, the next day your ten feet has filled in all but ten inches. Don't despair, just keep digging. Be patient and persist.

 

Keep in mind many masters in China and India who have pursued this route have spent years upon years just realizing this foundation.

[Mal]

[Squatting Monkey]

Zazen for me. Out of all the methods I have done, this is incredibly simple.

[Gerard]

Vipassana. Period.

[Owledge]

[Long Yun]

[Ya Mu]

Stop indulging in your thoughts. Stopping the World comes later.

 

Exibiting self control when it comes to desires?

 

What I mean is non-indulgence. What we all typically do is indulge and the mind runs with it. An example, the thought runs through your mind of "ice cream". Non-indulgence is to recognize this thought for what it is and let go of it. Indulgence would be to say to yourself, "Hmm, I like chocolate ice cream. I believe I may go to the store tomorrow and get some. On further thought, I think I will go now to a drive in and get a cone, or maybe..."

The indulgence leads to further non-sense, because, no matter how you plan chances are it will happen in a different manner. So, recognize a thought as a thought and don't latch onto it.

[Long Yun]

What I mean is non-indulgence. What we all typically do is indulge and the mind runs with it. An example, the thought runs through your mind of "ice cream". Non-indulgence is to recognize this thought for what it is and let go of it. Indulgence would be to say to yourself, "Hmm, I like chocolate ice cream. I believe I may go to the store tomorrow and get some. On further thought, I think I will go now to a drive in and get a cone, or maybe..."

The indulgence leads to further non-sense, because, no matter how you plan chances are it will happen in a different manner. So, recognize a thought as a thought and don't latch onto it.

Wonderful explanation Ya Mu. I understand what you're saying and I can't believe I was totally overlooking this

[gendao]

IMO, what helps is integrating the mind and body as one.

 

Typically, when someone is always stuck in their head, they hunch forward and carry a lot of tension in their shoulders. This is because all their energy is stuck up in their head and it thus becomes very heavy. Which causes their head to droop forward and shoulders to strain from supporting all that weight like a wrecking ball.

Well, when Dionne "cut my head off," it felt like this trapdoor at my "jade pillow" or "tian zhu" (BL 10) opened and allowed energy to flush through. My head felt more weightless then, or not even there like I was headless.

So, I think the more open your flow through there, the less likely energy or thoughts will get trapped and stagnate in your headspace.

Edited April 22, 2009 by vortex

[Wayfarer64]

I find some deep woods and sit and be still so critters come up to me and I can smile again...

 

Then I meditate on my many blessings. Then I do some basic stillness meditation... Then I walk home as if on clouds...

[Long Yun]

What about this? I really like this: (Bold is areas I don't feel I understand)

Cultivating the Energy of Life[/i] by Eva Wong]

The first step in refining the mind is to tame the impure mind. The impure mind is filled with thoughts and idle chatter. Thoughts come from desire and idle chatter is born from ignorance. When you first practice meditation, you should set aside desire and sever your attachment to the world. Stop the wandering thoughts and the idle chatter. Use the method of [1] observing stillness to dissolve everything into nothingness. Focus on the area behind the navel and in front of the Life Gate. Below it, inside, there is an empty circle. This is where you should direct your inward gaze. [2] Illuminate the mind and suspend it in the sky. Gather it with energy and keep it within the limits. [3] Let the coming and going hover within the square in the circle. Let every breath return to the root to be united with the natural act of creation. You must be firm and still or the mysterious work within will not be clear and clean. [4] The ray of internal light must be connected to the true breath and stay in a state of nondifferentiation and stillness. This is the preliminary work of refining the mind and cultivating the vapor.

[1] The method of observing stillness? Just stillness meditation or something specific?

[2] I have no clue what any of this means

[3] Coming and going of thought? Square (Earth) within the Circle (Heaven)? Huh??? I don't get the next sentence either.

[4] Internal light being attention? Focusing on the breathing?

 

I think that this method is shifting attention down into the Lower Dantian, while at the same time listening to the "soundlessness of breath." You breathe quiet enough that you can hear it into the LDT? Am I reading this correctly?

 

Haha! This is almost the same meditation I was doing with Spring Forest Qigong. Mjjbecker has been right all along...

[Unconditioned]

To quote one of my favorites, "Awareness, Awareness, Awareness" Anthony DeMello.

 

Throughout the day, all day, I 'try' (using that word loosely) to be aware. Of what? Everything, internal and external. I've found that I have moments that last anywhere from a couple of seconds to a few minutes of a completely quiet mind, no thoughts.

 

It sounds simple in theory but it takes some real discipline to keep at it... when you can get in the no-thought state while going about your day to day business, that's a really interesting thing.

 

I also practice a meditation at night sitting and looking without blinking and focus attention on the body (all of it). The 'images' start to get distorted (see some odd spots or things just look different after a while) but after about 10-15 minutes, I almost lose touch with the physical body... like if my hands are one on top of the other, I can't tell that I have two hands... it just feels like one body mass... eventually this spreads throughout my entire body and all that I'm 'feeling' is a sense of being.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Attending a vipassana retreat is one of the best ways I know to get a foot hold.

 

Many techniques settle the mind, some artificial, some natural. Artificial ones include counting, mantra, etc. Natural ones are watching the breath, increasing awareness of sensation, letting go of thoughts as they come.

 

More than anything else, regular practice is required. Settling the mind is like digging a whole in the sand. Dig ten feet one day, the next day your ten feet has filled in all but ten inches. Don't despair, just keep digging. Be patient and persist.

 

Keep in mind many masters in China and India who have pursued this route have spent years upon years just realizing this foundation.

 

Good advices

[goldisheavy]

IMO, what helps is integrating the mind and body as one.

 

Typically, when someone is always stuck in their head, they hunch forward and carry a lot of tension in their shoulders. This is because all their energy is stuck up in their head and it thus becomes very heavy. Which causes their head to droop forward and shoulders to strain from supporting all that weight like a wrecking ball.

 

No, no, no. this position results from over-relaxation. It has nothing to do with the tension. It has more to do with slouching and slouching is basically chilling or relaxing. How do you sit on a couch? Do you sit straight up? Or do you lay like a towel, allowing your body to fall fluidly however it pleases? Slinking around is a form of relaxation. So when you try to act like you're on a couch when you're standing up, you end up slouching. It's kind of like when you'd rather be sleeping or napping, but you have to be standing. That's what it is.

 

Not every posture problem is caused by tension. Some are caused by over-laxity. If I had to make an inference from this posture to a mental state, the words "space cadet" come to mind.

Edited April 23, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Long Yun]

Cultivating the Energy of Life by Eva Wong

 

The first step in refining the mind is to tame the impure mind. The impure mind is filled with thoughts and idle chatter. Thoughts come from desire and idle chatter is born from ignorance. When you first practice meditation, you should set aside desire and sever your attachment to the world. Stop the wandering thoughts and the idle chatter. Use the method of observing stillness to dissolve everything into nothingness. Focus on the area behind the navel and in front of the Life Gate. Below it, inside, there is an empty circle. This is where you should direct your inward gaze. Illuminate the mind and suspend it in the sky. Gather it with energy and keep it within the limits. Let the coming and going hover within the square in the circle. Let every breath return to the root to be united with the natural act of creation. You must be firm and still or the mysterious work within will not be clear and clean. The ray of internal light must be connected to the true breath and stay in a state of nondifferentiation and stillness. This is the preliminary work of refining the mind and cultivating the vapor.

This vapor is the Qi after the gathering and transformation of Jing into preheavenly Qi? Am I interpreting this correctly? Essentially, Alchemy is refining the mind and cultivating the vapor? This meditation is thus the preliminary work for Alchemy? But would that mean that there's a sort of deadline on when to move on to the next stage?

[gendao]

No, no, no. this position results from over-relaxation. It has nothing to do with the tension. It has more to do with slouching and slouching is basically chilling or relaxing. How do you sit on a couch? Do you sit straight up? Or do you lay like a towel, allowing your body to fall fluidly however it pleases? Slinking around is a form of relaxation. So when you try to act like you're on a couch when you're standing up, you end up slouching. It's kind of like when you'd rather be sleeping or napping, but you have to be standing. That's what it is.

 

Not every posture problem is caused by tension. Some are caused by over-laxity. If I had to make an inference from this posture to a mental state, the words "space cadet" come to mind.

Actually, I disagree. And I will make a larger point about relaxation, balance and alignment here. A lot of Taoist arts teach you to "relax" or be "loose" (song).

 

Problem with this is that physical relaxation is really a SYMPTOM, not the CAUSE. The real CAUSE is balance and alignment with the path of least resistance...

 

So, the formula is backwards.

 

Imagine your vertebrae & bones as a Jenga tower.

Now, the more balanced it is, the more self-supporting and taller you can build it.

But when it is unbalanced, then you would need external support to carry the load - or it will fall.

 

In the human body, this equates to more of the load shifting from your bones in compression to your muscles in tension. A tense muscle is not a song muscle. Also, muscles are weaker in tension than bones are in compression - which reduces your overall strength.

 

Now, if you are free-standing, then slouching may seem to be more relaxed at first, but your MT will tell you otherwise when they start unknotting your stiffened shoulders later. This is because your "external" support here became your muscles. Which is why in Taijiquan, you don't slouch, but stack your vertebrae up on top of each other. Your muscles are used mostly to stabilize and balance your bones, not carry their load for them.

 

Now, if you are reclining in a chair or lying down, then yes, allowing the chair or ground to externally support your weight is actually even more relaxed. Because now you've taken the load off both your bones AND muscles.

 

So, the bottomline here is that Taoist arts should teach students to physically seek BALANCE & ALIGNMENT with the path of least resistance first...and then "song" will follow naturally as a side effect. But if you do that vice-versa, you can try being "song" for 20 years, yet never find proper balance or alignment - and true relaxation. Unfortunately, the traditional teaching method is typically backwards and so a lot of time and effort gets wasted with mimicking results instead of utilizing the underlying principles...

Edited April 23, 2009 by vortex

[Guest paul walter]

What about this? I really like this: (Bold is areas I don't feel I understand)

 

[1] The method of observing stillness? Just stillness meditation or something specific?

[2] I have no clue what any of this means

[3] Coming and going of thought? Square (Earth) within the Circle (Heaven)? Huh??? I don't get the next sentence either.

[4] Internal light being attention? Focusing on the breathing?

 

I think that this method is shifting attention down into the Lower Dantian, while at the same time listening to the "soundlessness of breath." You breathe quiet enough that you can hear it into the LDT? Am I reading this correctly?

 

Haha! This is almost the same meditation I was doing with Spring Forest Qigong. Mjjbecker has been right all along...

 

 

 

If you don't understand this it's not for you now! There are real basic things to do that get immediate results. There is no mystery just a hell amount of work which will involve pain and discomfort.The more honest you are with your confrontation with yourself the greater and quicker the results. But nobody wants to do their own hard work do they? It's easier to study the taming of the mind and pretend and hope results will eventuate than to do it for real. I don't think anyone asking on a forum about methods is all that serious for starters-sounds more like they want the right method to do it for them. The harsh tone of my reply is to try and give you a taste of the state in which you have to approach the minds BS.

[contrivedname!]

If you don't understand this it's not for you now! There are real basic things to do that get immediate results. There is no mystery just a hell amount of work which will involve pain and discomfort.The more honest you are with your confrontation with yourself the greater and quicker the results. But nobody wants to do their own hard work do they? It's easier to study the taming of the mind and pretend and hope results will eventuate than to do it for real. I don't think anyone asking on a forum about methods is all that serious for starters-sounds more like they want the right method to do it for them. The harsh tone of my reply is to try and give you a taste of the state in which you have to approach the minds BS.

 

your quote made me think of "if you see the buddha, kill the buddha"