Enlightenment, in depth

[doc benway]

What is enlightenment? It means knowing your own mind as it really is.

I think this is worthy of repeating.

 

"It means knowing your own mind as it really is."

 

Unfortunately, many of us mistake an image or belief of the mind for the mind itself. We think we know ourselves but are simply deluded. Understanding the mind through the use of intellect is like trying to swim in the word water. It takes serious commitment and an enormous amount of energy to know the mind but what is there better to do?

 

Well said Kate.

 

I think rebirth happens every millisecond.

But only when one is aware...

[xenolith]

What is enlightenment? It means knowing your own mind as it really is.

To the extent that you mean mind minus awareness informed by the human experience conditioned electro-fabric portion of it, you are expressing my experience exactly.

As I said, I have BDD ;-) Why insist so much on something that is belief-dependent?

Once experienced all previously held beliefs no longer exist...

 

...only knowing, belonging...the Tao.

[5ENSES]

Did I just learn that enlightenment is rebirth control???!!!!

[xabir2005]

Did I just learn that enlightenment is rebirth control???!!!!

That is only one aspect of enlightenment according to masters and traditions. It does not talk about the insights that occur during enlightenment which Scotty has already summarized well.

 

There is no need to focus too much about this.

[Sunya]

Did I just learn that enlightenment is rebirth control???!!!!

 

why not just take a rebirth control pill?

much easier.

[Birch]

Just so we know;-) I took the sig from Mikaelz in the first place.

 

I was thinking (sic) of a new one for me:

 

"Don't always believe what you think!"

 

What do you think?

Pun not intended.

[Sunya]

Just so we know;-) I took the sig from Mikaelz in the first place.

 

I was thinking (sic) of a new one for me:

 

"Don't always believe what you think!"

 

What do you think?

Pun not intended.

 

 

 

I like that.. or "don't believe in the one who thinks", but then that would imply a false duality. since thoughts are just empty, there is no "thinker" but either way, the point is to stop believing thoughts. quite hard actually for someone like "me" who is so engrossed in thoughts.

 

I put "me" in quotes since the validity of this me is still not definite

Edited May 13, 2009 by mikaelz

[Birch]

Without going all the way;-) You can still think of something you don't presently believe in - like that big fat pink elephant in your living room (for which the gun is stored some place between the refrigerator and the oven, approximately;-) )

 

No-one may get the stupid reference to elephant guns - or will they???

[TTT]

[goldisheavy]

Again a post of Yogani, his website is so damn good

 

The reason is because there is no such thing as individual enlightenment in the ultimate sense. As we are approaching individual enlightenment, we begin to know ourselves to be all that is around us. Then the condition of consciousness of all who are around us is seen to be our condition.

 

I agree.

 

 

So we will not be fully enlightened until everyone is enlightened.

 

I disagree. You're confusing appearances with wisdom. What you're talking about here is creating an appearance of a pure realm. But you can be enlightened long before such appearance is created. Alternative we can say that as you get closer to enlightenment you realize there is no such thing as enlightenment, and thus other people seem to be close to enlightenment as well.

 

No matter how comprehensive your understanding of yourself gets, you are still left with yourself. That's not to say alone, but your mind is what it is... it doesn't become some other thing.

[xenolith]

If it doesn't cause you to spontaneously cry and smile it aint enlightenment.

[三江源]

.

Edited April 9, 2015 by 三江源

[Birch]

If it doesn't spontaneously get you to not eat that second Krispy Kreme - then it ain't enlightenment either;-)

 

But you might say wolfing down the second Krispy Kreme and the realization that you don't have to are too insignificant/ridiculous to be called this wonderful thing that is enlightenment. I would reply: no realization is insignificant.

[gatito]

I'm slowly reading and enjoying this excellent thread (although I'm only on the first page at the moment ).

 

Perhaps there are other new-arrivals here for whom it could be useful food for thought?

 

I hope that it will remain up to TTBs 2009 standards..

Edited December 10, 2014 by gatito

[Aetherous]

Coming back to this after having actually had some Buddhist instruction, in contrast to back in 2009, here's something I've learned...

Enlightenment in Tibetan Buddhism is basically thought of as the Buddha nature, and an enlightened person is someone who is free from obscurations that cover the Buddha nature. The obscurations can be summed up as: conceptual thought (specifically involving dualistic notions of self and not-self), and negative emotions (pretty much, all of which stem from those notions). Someone who is totally free from those things is said to be enlightened. If you ever experience negative emotions, or if you are ever caught up in any kind of dualistic concepts, then you're not enlightened according to the Tibetan definition.

The enlightenment is not considered as something that comes and goes...the Buddha jewel is totally unconditioned, without a beginning middle or end. So you can't create enlightenment, which would mean for it to have a beginning. Experiences and things come and go...so for anything that goes, it's not the state of enlightenment. To say whether it's an experience or not...well, you can absolutely experience being free from negativity and notions. It's a state of natural peace. But enlightenment is not a thing to be experienced, and it's not something that's created, or caused by any effort...it just is, and there are just things that obscure it. It is eternal. This sort of understanding is primarily for the purpose of training the practitioner's minds for the result...and is best understood in context, rather than from my unenlightened post.

It's best to practice in order to understand this experientially at least to some extent. Just reading it, it might seem right or it might seem wrong. It really doesn't matter what people think or whether it seems logical or not. Doing Buddhist practices causes the realization of it...and that is all that matters.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Aetherous

[Boy]

...

Edited December 31, 2014 by Boy

[Aetherous]

That's an excellent description, Aetherous!

 

I've only gone through the beginning course of Dharma Sun's Triple Excellence program...the ideas are just from there. I'm with you that it totally works with (what I know of) Vedanta.