2012 Big Changes

[dragonfire]

Guys, I think 2012 is not a good time for human beings. There is going to

be a polar shift that is going to put the North pole where the equator is

and make the equator probably underwater. It is a fact that millions

of square miles of tropical forest is underneath the north pole.

 

Remember Atlantis? It is very real and do you know it went under the

ocean. It was because of a pole shift. When the earth shifted,

it sunk some land and surfaced other land masses. Its cyclic.

 

Every 3600 years, the poles shift because of planetary influence.

 

If you knew that half or more of the land masses would be underwater in

one month, what would you do?

 

I actually thought about running to the himalaysis, but I think I

will stick around with my family (parents) and die or survive this

together.

 

I don't even think a global conscious effort can offset the polar shift. The

consciousness effort may affect the magnetic force field around the earth, but

I believe the influences of the planets will be too great this time.

 

All major cities within 100 miles of the ocean will be underwater

probably within weeks.

 

Because we live in the time of technology and all technology

centers are within 100 miles of the ocean, they will all

be wiped out.

 

*All internet will be wiped out

*All telecommunication, cell phones wiped out

 

This is really a new beginning, as the slate will be cleaned.

 

But, for those that survive, they will experience a spiritual time.

[Aetherous]

It's amazing how many people actually believe this type of thing.

 

When 2013 comes around and you're still alive, remember how wrong you were, and never believe in predictions again.

[NorthWide]

At first thought I wasnt going to respond but... ok.

 

Ive heard some say there was going to be wars. I also heard other stuff too...

 

The magnetic pole moves a few centimeters per year however. Well documented. However noticing the sun still seems to rise and set at an angle maintaining winter due to the axis of the earth and revolution around the sun showing that a huge jump in this has not occured yet.

 

I know that there have been many energy shifts and in fact this last fall of 2008 there were some strong ones. All I can say is that there are a lot of stories going around. Some of them true, some of them wild ideas. The energy shift thing seems to be very true, in fact something I have experienced, even as far back as 2007. Some started noticing it as far back as 2002 when it was more subtle...

 

I am sure people will be suprised when this time comes around 2012-2013 and the angle of the sun stays relatively the same in the sky, and the water levels stay relatively the same. What can I really say? Perhaps wait and see what happens?

[Sloppy Zhang]

If you knew that half or more of the land masses would be underwater in

one month, what would you do?

 

Rapidly evolve into a sea creature.

 

(joke from the Ice Age movie, hehehe)

 

I actually thought about running to the himalaysis,

 

Maybe it's a good thing you re thought that, see this trailer:

 

To be honest, my big plan is.... cross the bridge when I come to it

 

If the poles flip, the world floods, then I'll drown and die anyway....

 

If earth suddenly lost it's magnetic field, I'd be killed in any number of ways simultaneously (fried by the normally blocked solar rays all passing through my body, erratic weather, etc etc)

 

So, I mean, I could develop super awesome psychic powers and save the world then , but I don't have them now, so I can't tell you at the moment.

[dragonfire]

It's amazing how many people actually believe this type of thing.

 

When 2013 comes around and you're still alive, remember how wrong you were, and never believe in predictions again.

 

All you need to do is look at the facts. This is not a y2k bug event. It has been

predicted by all high level psychics around the world for thousand of years and

historical scientific data. I sure hope you believe in pyschics. If you are around, you were probably saved and did not feel the ill effects. Those that are positively oriented will not experience space/time change.

 

In fact things have already begun. Each day the solar bodies are lining

up ever so slowly. The changes on earth we see today are not earth

specific, changes are occuring in all solar bodies. The closer we

get to 2012, the bigger the effects will be.

 

We have definitely affected the earths electromagnetic field through pollution, which

opens the earth to damage from the sun flares. But the polar shift is

different and will happen because of the gravitational effects of the

other solar bodies. Earth is small in comparison to the other big planets.

If even one of them comes close to earth, the Earth will tilt.

 

It will definitely be a spiritual growth period for humans, for those that

survive because the electromagnetic energy created by the alignment

will open everyones psychic centers.

[Aetherous]

All you need to do is look at the facts.

 

Nothing needs to be done, because I'm okay with dying if there is actually a sudden pole shift. Not much you can do about it, then. Also, not much you can do about it beforehand, unless you know which piece of land will stay above water...or unless you have a boat and like to fish.

 

This is not a y2k bug event. It has been

predicted by all high level psychics around the world for thousand of years and

historical scientific data. I sure hope you believe in pyschics.

 

I don't believe in psychics at all. They are consistently wrong for any prediction I've ever heard of.

 

Since this has been predicted by ALL of the high level psychics, then I hope that when nothing happens and 2013 comes around, you see that psychics aren't to be trusted.

 

I think it'll be exactly like the y2k bug event. We will move on, and go back to work. Many of us will continue to come up with crazy predictions for the future...we never learn do we?

[neidan practitioner]

Guys, I think 2012 is not a good time for human beings. There is going to

be a polar shift that is going to put the North pole where the equator is

and make the equator probably underwater.

 

What are you basing this on? The 'end of the world' predictions have been

coming and going over and over again, for many, many years, and the deadlines

keep passing without so much as a hiccup. :-D

 

However, there is a very real and serious problem of global warming facing the world

today, and if current warming trends continue as they have been going for the last 10 to 20

years or so, there will likely be some very real disasters and severe challenges

facing mankind in the next 20 to 50 years and on. We are already starting to see

strange weather patterns and problems occurring around the world, and this may well

continue to increase in severity if people around the globe don't wake up and smell the coffee.

It looks like people may well continue to keep their heads in the sand until it is way too

late to do much about it though. However, what you are saying is something else altogether.

 

To make life decisions based on whim and speculation is usually not fruitful, but

to make decisions based on what is real and true and present usually is. I think if

people concerned themselves more with real and pressing issues in our world (such as the

global warming issue, for example), and worried less about speculation and fancy

and what if's, maybe we could actually start solving some of the real problems facing

this world. Idle speculation is just that, and usually just leads to wasted time and energy.

If we don't take a practical approach to life, much of our energy just ends up being wasted

in one empty pursuit after another, until we are old already. So it seems to me, anyway. ;-)

Edited April 25, 2009 by neidan practitioner

[dragonfire]

Nothing needs to be done, because I'm okay with dying if there is actually a sudden pole shift. Not much you can do about it, then. Also, not much you can do about it beforehand, unless you know which piece of land will stay above water...or unless you have a boat and like to fish.

I don't believe in psychics at all. They are consistently wrong for any prediction I've ever heard of.

 

Since this has been predicted by ALL of the high level psychics, then I hope that when nothing happens and 2013 comes around, you see that psychics aren't to be trusted.

 

I think it'll be exactly like the y2k bug event. We will move on, and go back to work. Many of us will continue to come up with crazy predictions for the future...we never learn do we?

 

There is actually two separate events that will happen.

 

1. A pole shift caused by the solar bodies alignment

 

Result: Equator as we know it will be the north pole. The North pole will be the new equator.

Population: 1/4 of the population will die off pretty quickly. Another 1/4 will die from starvation and disease when all major technology systems, healthcare systems, manufacturing systems all destroyed.

 

2. Solar flares from the sun due to a heavenly body influence (PlanetX). This has been known by chinese ancients, tibetan high monks, mayans, egyptians, bible, and many psychics.

 

Result: Because humans have polluted the earth so much, we will not have the strong electromagnetic force

field to protect the earth from the sun's rays. Just like the human body has Wei Qi to protect it, if it weakens, the pathogens will attack. We have been like chronic smokers, polluting the earth, and weakening its defense system.

 

Population: Another 1/4 or more will die off.

 

The only positive news I have is, don't worry too much about it. Accept death when it comes. It

is not the end. As eternal bodies, we are allowed 7 human births. If you survive, you had

heavenly influence.

 

Like I said, I'm not running to the himalaysis. It would be selfish. This is a safe haven according to the

ancients tho.

[Trixter Streetcat]

There is actually two separate events that will happen.

 

1. A pole shift caused by the solar bodies alignment

 

Result: Equator as we know it will be the north pole. The North pole will be the new equator.

Population: 1/4 of the population will die off pretty quickly. Another 1/4 will die from starvation and disease when all major technology systems, healthcare systems, manufacturing systems all destroyed.

 

2. Solar flares from the sun due to a heavenly body influence (PlanetX). This has been known by chinese ancients, tibetan high monks, mayans, egyptians, bible, and many psychics.

 

 

okay,

 

so everyday I speak to different people and everyone has a different theory for what is going to happen in 2012. polar shifts, solar flares, alien invasion, great devastating wars, global shift of consciousness... whatever.

if any of this happens, three choices, we die, we fight what we can, if we can, for however long as we can, or we change forever into godlike, timeless beings. que sera, sera.

still, 2012, god! I'm just trying to understand this. 2012 is a date that was chosen because it's the end of the mayan calendar. the mayans NEVER referred to december 21st 2012 as the END OF THE WORLD. there is no historical data for this. some insist that the tongue sticking out of the sun in the calendar refers to those solar flares you were talking about. no historical data for this either. all that the mayans said was that the long count ended then, which merely means that the calendar is reset to baktun 13.0.0.0.0 (not sure about that last date). a theoretical "end of the world" proposed by the mayas was something like baktun 13.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 or something of the like (again, that date is not reliable info) which was like a few million years from now.

I agree, the poles are shifting. although i find it hard to believe that having shifted for a couple of degrees every now and then, they would suddenly shift 90 degrees in the space of three years. now that would very certainly fuck us all up. who knows what the earth would even look like after that. i think planetary occurrences happen in planetary time. which makes it impossible for me to imagine a 90 degree pole shift in three years. maybe i just don't understand the principle, if it is somehow physically possible, I would like someone to explain that for me.

I also agree, humankind is fucking up its own earth, and there needs to be a radical shift in consciousness to prevent this.

still, if all of this were true, it would have NOTHING TO DO with 2012. 2012 is a mere calendaric landmark. it is the end of a cycle, and in THAT sense, an important moment. mayans understood cycles, and naturally with a new cycle come various changes. not necessarily the end of the world.

IMHO and from what I have researched, according to the mayans, hopefully (and if we play it right), it would mark the end of the gregorian calendar and return of the 13 month lunar calendar into our lives, eventually bringing us back to the mayan 13:20 count. living in 13:20 frequency would make us understand time differently and gradually become 4th dimensional beings, no longer attached to 3rd dimensional (materialistic) concepts, but finally 4th dimensional (time) concepts. in that sense it would be the end of TIME as we know it, not the end of the world. i am more positive in general than the others and consider it dangerous and counterproductive to think great wars will come then (we might get what we ask for).

2012 is about TIME. new cycles, new understanding of time. if you're interested you can check out this site:

http://www.tortuga.com/_NewCss/index.html

there are free pdf's to be downloaded about the "Law of Time". I find these particularly interesting. all about lunar calendars and the 13:20 frequency, and their possible effects on human conscience. very interesting stuff.

i agree with the many who dislike doomsday predictions. "Nobody knows when the end times will come." I might just stay home and smoke reefers till the shit hits the fan if I thought that. It would also induce mass (probably unjustified) panic everywhere if we promoted those ideas. I think that if a lot of people are going to die, they're going to be starved to death by first-world governments.

 

but hey, this is all just the conspiracy theorist in me.

 

trixter

[bukejian]

Everyone better be speeding up their immortality training

[SteamDave]

OK, my two cents.

Please notice I hold a degree in Earth Sciences, BTW - I don't play a geologist on the TV, I am an actual, live one :-)

 

So, polar shifts happen.

They have been taking place throughout theplanet's story - so much so that we use their traces as a dating tool.

But they are not predictable - surely not within a range of a few years.

There is no proof that they are anywhere tied to planetary alignments.

And the 3600 figure is pretty debatable.

 

There is no tropical forests under the North Pole.

Arctic is a huge chunk of ice floating on water.

Submarines pass beneath it.

 

Planet X - aka Nemesis - is a theory yet to be verified.

Attractive, popular, but lacking solid proof.

Anyway, should there be a planet Nemesis, it would have nothing to do with solar flares - that are a phenomenon connected with internal solar dynamics.

 

Finally, as Trixter Streetcar mentioned, 2012 is just a figure.

Considering the number of manipulation the Christian calendar went through, might as well be 2021 :-)

And, considering that a number of countries do not follow that calendar, is the apocalypse coming only to those that do?

 

My suggestion - do not worry.

There's a number of ways in which each one of use might die - and only one in which each one of us will.

No need to move the planets and shift the poles.

 

All the best.

[NorthWide]

...

Edited April 25, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[dragonfire]

Here's another thing. Imagine that just like how columbus supposedly discovered that the

earth was round, not flat. Now what if we are about to discover something that is even

more cool. What if the earth is actually hollow. And within the hollow earth, dwells another

human race that has been there for thousands of years. Its technology way ahead of ours since they

had thousands of years to develop.

 

Will you be the narrow-minded brain washed people who said "that is ridiculous? the earth is not round?" or will you be the person who says wow "that is a possibility?, I never thought the earth was hollow."

 

To the person who said the North pole does not have millions of acres of Tropical vegetation

underneath it. You should do more research. Underneath all that ice is land and vegetation.

 

When the poles shift, the North pole will reveal land and people will go there since it is supposed to

be the new equator. When this happens, people will be revealed to the new interior earth. This

place is supposed to be paradise.

Edited April 25, 2009 by dragonfire

[Maitey]

Everyone better be speeding up their immortality training

 

Proof of 2012! You read my mind!

 

Personally I find 2009 to be my present concern, I will bother about 2012 in...2011 Anyone good at building boats?

[NorthWide]

Here's another thing. Imagine that just like how columbus supposedly discovered that the

earth was round, not flat. Now what if we are about to discover something that is even

more cool. What if the earth is actually hollow. And within the hollow earth, dwells another

human race that has been there for thousands of years. Its technology way ahead of ours since they

had thousands of years to develop.

 

Will you be the narrow-minded brain washed people who said "that is ridiculous? the earth is not round?" or will you be the person who says wow "that is a possibility?, I never thought the earth was hollow."

 

To the person who said the North pole does not have millions of acres of Tropical vegetation

underneath it. You should do more research. Underneath all that ice is land and vegetation.

 

When the poles shift, the North pole will reveal land and people will go there since it is supposed to

be the new equator. When this happens, people will be revealed to the new interior earth. This

place is supposed to be paradise.

 

I am not ridiculing you here, but the blue colored people is your defense?

 

I know psychics predicted calamities in 2012 but I am sure they all have books and booking on shows (something to sell). Too bad no one asked me. I give what I get freely.

 

I feel left out I picked up on the vibrational changes which can be a hazard in itself, but never felt any "calamity" course it depends upon what you consider a calamity.

 

As for 7 births I am not sure why people create such wild stories. I wish I had some contempt to give here, but deep down I feel mild amusement at it. How does that make you feel? Is there not something deep down that disagrees with it? I am not here to force your opinion but seriously copying something from a book or cut and pasting from emails or websites is something I have seen a lot in my time i have been on the internet. It hasnt impressed me one iota.

Edited April 26, 2009 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Sunya]

 

I don't believe in psychics at all. They are consistently wrong for any prediction I've ever heard of.

 

Since this has been predicted by ALL of the high level psychics, then I hope that when nothing happens and 2013 comes around, you see that psychics aren't to be trusted.

 

I think it'll be exactly like the y2k bug event. We will move on, and go back to work. Many of us will continue to come up with crazy predictions for the future...we never learn do we?

 

 

bahahah, so true.

since when is that a conclusive argument "ALL the HIGH level PSYCHICS are in agreement" . WELL in that case I MUST believe. but i want to hear from the LOW level psychics first, maybe they have a better 'view'

 

most psychics have no idea how to use siddhis and only end up projecting their unconscious fears onto a non-existent future.

 

there are no 'facts'that point to anything relevant happening in 2012. yes there will be some astronomical event but there is no proof anything drastic will happen.

 

You could die next week in a car crash.

 

There is actually two separate events that will happen.

 

1. A pole shift caused by the solar bodies alignment

 

Result: Equator as we know it will be the north pole. The North pole will be the new equator.

Population: 1/4 of the population will die off pretty quickly. Another 1/4 will die from starvation and disease when all major technology systems, healthcare systems, manufacturing systems all destroyed.

 

you have no proof of the reality of this.

 

2. Solar flares from the sun due to a heavenly body influence (PlanetX). This has been known by chinese ancients, tibetan high monks, mayans, egyptians, bible, and many psychics.

 

 

show some sources for your ridiculous claims.

 

curb your mind, its running off with your reason.

 

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/05/19/no-doomsday-in-2012/

 

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/05/25/2012-no-planet-x/

Edited April 26, 2009 by mikaelz

[Taomeow]

Anyone read Terence McKenna's "Landscapes of Time?"

 

He used the original, King Wen's sequence of the I Ching hexagrams (different from the Zhouyi in common circulation, the one with all the commentaries. King Wen's sequence is seldom used because there's no commentaries, but quite workable with if you've studied taoist fundamentals, and not impossible to find if you're persistent and/or lucky -- I for one have it) --

 

so, OK, McKenna used it to create a computer program he called TimeWave Zero, which allowed him to map the waveform cyclic pattern of time -- or should I say the pattern of tao ("the way of tao is motion and the pattern of this motion is return" -- so tao-in-motion is space-time in the classic Einstein-Minkovski sense) onto the timeline of world events. The resulting graph showed highs and lows that coincided with events of human history with uncanny precision -- the lows fell smack onto the years of plagues, wars, famines, etc., and the highs, onto enlightened, creative, peaceful moments). The graph looks more or less regular (with faster oscillations though due to what McKenna calls "introduction of novelty" and the Duke of Zhou called simply "yi") -- till the line plunges down to a low point never before encountered anywhere on the graph circa our nearest future, and then fizzles out into infinity in exactly 2012.

 

McKenna didn't predict the end of the world or the beginning of a new world based on this outcome, an unexpected one for him (since he got the 2012 date from the program, rather than wrote a program to justify a pre-conceived date). Instead, he surmised that "novelty," in whatever shape or form it is introduced into the world, will reach such magnitude by that point that the world as we know it will be unable to sustain itself and flip over into something else.

 

What kind of "something else?.." When I asked the I Ching herself a couple of years ago, she told me to mind my own business. At that time I interpreted it as being dissuaded from idle speculation, but by now I understand her response very differently. The events, should they unfold -- and unfold they will, I'm no stranger to detecting "yi" in the environment myself for that matter, and it's off the charts and climbing --

the events, whatever they may be, may well be interactive. And if they are, it means they will notice what kind of a consciousness "minding my own business" produces. So, as usual, the I Ching gave me the best response of all responses possible in a probabilistic universe.

[dragonfire]

Its so sad how brainwashed and closed-minded the majority of the people are. It really is.

The rich and powerful have been very successful in keeping everyone tube-tied

and full of fear.

 

The fact is, everything is usually in the open in sci-fi novels or movies, But

many are so narrow-minded they can not focus beyond 10 feet of themselves

or less.

 

For the older people, its a little too late to change them, but for the younger

people, question everything. Do not take anyone's perspective as the truth,

not even your parents. Find out for yourself. Most of the time your

parents have already been programmed by society, unless they are

like Albert Einstein. Its the same thinking that keeps people locked

into to paying their big mortgages, thinking there is no way out

and no real freedom.

 

I wish everyone success in finding the truth.

Edited April 26, 2009 by dragonfire

[Sunya]

The events, should they unfold -- and unfold they will, I'm no stranger to detecting "yi" in the environment myself for that matter, and it's off the charts and climbing --

the events, whatever they may be, may well be interactive. And if they are, it means they will notice what kind of a consciousness "minding my own business" produces. So, as usual, the I Ching gave me the best response of all responses possible in a probabilistic universe.

 

what is "yi" ?

 

 

Its so sad how brainwashed and closed-minded the majority of the people are.

 

I wish everyone success in finding the truth.

 

your truth.

 

just because some "radical" people tossed together a few unverified facts and theories, you jump right on the bandwagon, doing NO research for yourself. have you personally met 'high level' psychics, shamans, Tibetan masters, Mayan experts, astronomy and physics experts to verify if anything is truly going down? you speak about brainwashing but are you any better? I respect the hunt for truth, but possibly this zealous hunt is creating more mis-truth than unraveling anything at all.

Edited April 26, 2009 by mikaelz

[Ya Mu]

My suggestion is to practice qigong, calmness, and be a good & moral person. Put particular emphasis on the higher vibration levels. The higher level energy and calmness will pay big dividends to those that practice. Be concerned about NOW as there never will be a tomorrow, only now. The radiated calmness will play a big role in the upcoming events of our lives.

 

Yes there are changes and energy shifts happening. All one has to do is tune into the energetics to see this for themselves. But if one practices the above then they will have done what is needed.

The problem with visions and predictions is the "time line", which is not real.

 

Gee, hope I can get my next book out by 2012. I do talk about these things and what is happening.

[neidan practitioner]

Its so sad how brainwashed and closed-minded the majority of the people are. It really is.

The rich and powerful have been very successful in keeping everyone tube-tied

and full of fear.

 

The fact is, everything is usually in the open in sci-fi novels or movies, But

many are so narrow-minded they can not focus beyond 10 feet of themselves

or less.

 

For the older people, its a little too late to change them, but for the younger

people, question everything. Do not take anyone's perspective as the truth,

not even your parents. Find out for yourself. Most of the time your

parents have already been programmed by society, unless they are

like Albert Einstein. Its the same thinking that keeps people locked

into to paying their big mortgages, thinking there is no way out

and no real freedom.

 

I wish everyone success in finding the truth.

 

dragonfire, you should pay attention to your own advice. You have stated some things

in this thread as 'facts', that others have politely pointed out are clearly just speculation

at best, and some things you stated as 'facts' are quite at odds with known facts.

For one, the North Pole is an ice cap (albeit a rapidly receding one) with ocean underneath.

It is however a known fact the far arctic once was covered with trees, as petrified wood has been

found in the arctic to prove this. However, it is ocean under the North Pole area, not land.

[ Edit: Here's a link for those who are interested in reading a little more about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole ]

 

A person who is interested in the truth does not dismiss known information out of hand simply because

the information does not fit with what they want to believe. Such is not the behaviour of someone

who is sincerely looking for truth. To be frank, IMO, your words and attitude in this thread seem to

show definite signs of delusional tendencies. If I were a member of your family I would be more

than a little concerened about you right now. If members of your family have been expressing

concerns about your behaviour lately, I would suggest you listen to what they have to say.

 

There is a world of difference between keeping an open mind about things, and blindly

believing in things to the point that you are denying what is obvious and undeniable, simply

because it doesn't fit your beliefs. A sincere seeker of truth must first start by seriously looking into

*all* their beliefs, and questioning everything. However, one can not do it by blindly holding on to

certain sets of beliefs, and dismissing any and all conflicting information outright, or by trying to rationalize

the conflicting information away by saying that people are just 'brain washed' or 'close-minded'

because they point out that some of the statements you are making are false.

Sorry to be so frank, but I have run across these situations more than a few times over the years,

and the outcomes are sometimes not good at all. If you are really interested in truth, you should

at least give consideration to what I and others have said here.

Edited April 26, 2009 by neidan practitioner

[DaoChild]

Please no more conspiracy theories.

[Birch]

"Shift happens"

 

I'm sorry. I just couldn't resist;-)

 

Anyway, what does "knowing what might happen" in 2012 change for you today?

 

If the prospect of a less distant death than the one we usually count on can spur folks on to better things then why not?

 

It reminds me that I need to kick it.

 

Yes we can;-)

 

 

P.S.Any early 90's musical reference is intended

[dragonfire]

dragonfire, you should pay attention to your own advice. You have stated some things

in this thread as 'facts', that others have politely pointed out are clearly just speculation

at best, and some things you stated as 'facts' are quite at odds with known facts.

For one, the North Pole is an ice cap (albeit a rapidly receding one) with ocean underneath.

It is however a known fact the far arctic once was covered with trees, as petrified wood has been

found in the arctic to prove this. However, it is ocean under the North Pole area, not land.

[ Edit: Here's a link for those who are interested in reading a little more about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole ]

 

A person who is interested in the truth does not dismiss known information out of hand simply because

the information does not fit with what they want to believe. Such is not the behaviour of someone

who is sincerely looking for truth. To be frank, IMO, your words and attitude in this thread seem to

show definite signs of delusional tendencies. If I were a member of your family I would be more

than a little concerened about you right now. If members of your family have been expressing

concerns about your behaviour lately, I would suggest you listen to what they have to say.

 

There is a world of difference between keeping an open mind about things, and blindly

believing in things to the point that you are denying what is obvious and undeniable, simply

because it doesn't fit your beliefs. A sincere seeker of truth must first start by seriously looking into

*all* their beliefs, and questioning everything. However, one can not do it by blindly holding on to

certain sets of beliefs, and dismissing any and all conflicting information outright, or by trying to rationalize

the conflicting information away by saying that people are just 'brain washed' or 'close-minded'

because they point out that some of the statements you are making are false.

Sorry to be so frank, but I have run across these situations more than a few times over the years,

and the outcomes are sometimes not good at all. If you are really interested in truth, you should

at least give consideration to what I and others have said here.

 

You can call me delusion, that is fine. You can also call all your so called fine astronauts delusional

also since they said out of their mouth, they saw alien beings and ufo's and that we are not

alone. All the information is out there, just piece it together. It only takes a curious open mind. It all

comes together like a fine puzzle.

 

Like I said 95% of the population is programmed already. They can not think for themselves. They

can not even choose what to eat to stay healthy.

[Aetherous]

It all comes together like a fine puzzle.

 

Well, we'll see if the pieces fit by 2013.