2012 Big Changes

[joeblast]

I remember an old quote from Bucky Fuller about how all that accumulation would one day let the earth become a star. I've no idea what science thinks of that, these days.

Nowhere near enough mass to support fusion, unless we somehow smashed the planet to the size of manhattan and retain the same mass...

[Ian]

Nowhere near enough mass to support fusion, unless we somehow smashed the planet to the size of manhattan and retain the same mass...

Let's do it ! I'm free most of next weekend. You handle the techie side, and I'll fix the drinks.

[joeblast]

ahahahahaa nice

[Taomeow]

Most civilized people neither think nor feel in any conscious sense. Instead they run programs, like all domesticated animals whose natural range of perception and expression has been eliminated and replaced with obedience training.

 

The only thing we have too much of is obedience training, and the only thing we have not enough of is consciousness. Whether we did this to ourselves is debatable, I'm currently looking closely at all those theories that posit an extraneous intervention -- genetic modification of our species, enforcement of civilization for purposes of enslavement, the planet as a labor camp, its inhabitants programmed with physical features and mental indoctrination to accommodate this function and eliminate the bulk of other functions -- love, compassion, intelligence, independent thinking, freedom instinct, all the things that typically allow a species to adapt to whatever climate it finds itself in and thrive for hundreds of millions of years. We've been around for an evolutionary second and already we're so screwed en masse (most people alive today are starving, did you know that? and have always been in the history of civilization?) and have screwed up our environment to extinction and have swelled up in numbers while shrinking in qualities. What could a plausible explanation be?..

 

This I find plausible: a slave is not supposed to need to feel or think, is supposed to do the job and die. Is in a natural course? "Natural" would have to be defined, maybe aliens enslaving a planet for profit are as natural as Fernando Cortez enslaving a continent for profit. As above, so below. Or maybe as unnatural as a species of animals born with such a large neocortex -- that's us -- that the period of helplessness and dependency lasts for years before it matures, unlike in all other species where once you're born, you're soon enough ready for life, rather than for years and years of obedience training. Who knows.

[Deepbluesea]

Taomeow,

 

Are you saying that there is (are) mastermind(s) behind this regression or is it simply the curse of civilization/society? Is a hand purposefully guiding us into slavery or is it just society walking down an unfortunate road of which no one has a map or a distinct leader to follow?

[Taomeow]

Taomeow,

 

Are you saying that there is (are) mastermind(s) behind this regression or is it simply the curse of civilization/society? Is a hand purposefully guiding us into slavery or is it just society walking down an unfortunate road of which no one has a map or a distinct leader to follow?

Good question (and great name! )

 

I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out... The mastermind scenario is looking more and more plausible... I had a vision, see... a major major major one, in an authentic shamanic ceremony in the rain forest... but it's not something I would be able to "prove" -- even to myself, my intellectual part -- so I'm looking at all the "forbidden sciences" for proof (that can go either way of course...) ...and, yes, using my brain too, not just my gut. The gut screams foul play, the brain is undecided at this point... so I'll let them sort out their differences by feeding both -- the brain, information, the gut, meditation, and ultimately, integration.

[shen]

no sure but i think we all be photon particals by then

[Taomeow]

no sure but i think we all be photon particals by then

 

That's the thing... there's no "sure" about the future, but there's a bunch of "sures" about the past and present, and a photon particles future doesn't seem to flow naturally out of these -- it requires a leap of faith and a lot of hope.

 

Hope is dope. Hope is the most bodymind-numbing drug there is, one that causes people to do nothing about anything, just get the next fix of hope for the better, and the next, and the next, and the next. Just hope for the better. Or better yet, believe. Or better yet, believe in a fundamentalist fashion, no doubt allowed.

 

Very fishy, the whole faith-hope-based deal. If I was an enslaving mastermind behind an evil plot, hope and faith would be the first things I would program into my subjects to keep them comfortably manipulable.

[Deepbluesea]

Hope and faith, throw in heaping serving of guilt and the threat of a horrible afterlife are what most religions are all about. That's what is supposed to keep people walking down the straight and narrow.

 

The common quote is of course "Religion is the opiate of the masses"

 

a less common one that I have never been able to attribute but the ex-great Washington Redskin linebacker Sam Huff says all the time "Live in hope, die in despair"

 

I have a hard time with the mastermind idea. I can see civilization as more of a tragic image: That which makes it possible and successful is the same that destroys it.

[Taomeow]

Hope and faith, throw in heaping serving of guilt and the threat of a horrible afterlife are what most religions are all about. That's what is supposed to keep people walking down the straight and narrow.

 

The common quote is of course "Religion is the opiate of the masses"

 

a less common one that I have never been able to attribute but the ex-great Washington Redskin linebacker Sam Huff says all the time "Live in hope, die in despair"

 

I have a hard time with the mastermind idea. I can see civilization as more of a tragic image: That which makes it possible and successful is the same that destroys it.

 

The thing with civilizations is, they are, historically, sudden. Be it Maya or Egypt, they just appear boom, out of nowhere, and proceed to build huge pyramids using mass slave labor. Out of nowhere, out of hundreds of thousands of peaceful hunting-gathering years -- suddenly this. A hunter-gatherer "worked" an average of 18 hours a week (a little over two hours a day), and "work" was indistinguishable from "pleasure," "aliveness," "fun." Suddenly he works eighteen hours a day (a slave is worked to death de riguer, and not in ancient Egypt only -- the average time lapse between being hired and dying for women and children laboring in the coal mines in 18th century England was two years -- less than that for labor camps in Siberia and nazi camps in Europe in the 20th century) --

 

so successful it is, civilization is, for those who own the fruits of this labor, and for them alone. Who are they?.. Is it "us?" But who do we exclude when we think of the beneficiaries of civilization as "us?" A starving child in Africa? All of them? A soldier blown to pieces in Iraq? All of them? On "their" side only, or on "our" side too? If this boy blown to pieces is "us," is it fair to say civilization has served "us" well? And if he isn't, who is he?.. Isn't all of civilization about marginalizing its victims and pretending that we have accomplished something great provided we don't count those -- peoples, wolves, whales, rivers, forests, all their life great and small? There used to be 15,000 languages spoken on the North American continent, a rich tapestry of tribes and traditions spanning long peaceful millennia, all different, none "civilized" by our standard. Now everybody speaks English and has pretty much exactly the same life. This, too, has happened to "them" suddenly, out of the blue. Now everybody is civilized. Suddenly. Why?..

Edited May 12, 2009 by Taomeow

[Deepbluesea]

The thing with civilizations is, they are, historically, sudden. Be it Maya or Egypt, they just appear boom, out of nowhere, and proceed to build huge pyramids using mass slave labor. Out of nowhere, out of hundreds of thousands of peaceful hunting-gathering years -- suddenly this. A hunter-gatherer "worked" an average of 18 hours a week (a little over two hours a day), and "work" was indistinguishable from "pleasure," "aliveness," "fun." Suddenly he works eighteen hours a day (a slave is worked to death de riguer, and not in ancient Egypt only -- the average time lapse between being hired and dying for women and children laboring in the coal mines in 18th century England was two years -- less than that for labor camps in Siberia and nazi camps in Europe in the 20th century) --

 

so successful it is, civilization is, for those who own the fruits of this labor, and for them alone. Who are they?.. Is it "us?" But who do we exclude when we think of the beneficiaries of civilization as "us?" A starving child in Africa? All of them? A soldier blown to pieces in Iraq? All of them? On "their" side only, or on "our" side too? If this boy blown to pieces is "us," is it fair to say civilization has served "us" well? And if he isn't, who is he?.. Isn't all of civilization about marginalizing its victims and pretending that we have accomplished something great provided we don't count those -- peoples, wolves, whales, rivers, forests, all their life great and small? There used to be 15,000 languages spoken on the North American continent, a rich tapestry of tribes and traditions spanning long peaceful millennia, all different, none "civilized" by our standard. Now everybody speaks English and has pretty much exactly the same life. This, too, has happened to "them" suddenly, out of the blue. Now everybody is civilized. Suddenly. Why?..

 

 

Modern evolutionary theory, and I think Stephen J Gould is responsible for this, (I can't quite remember) says that instead of Darwin's ideas of evolution creating changes over thousands ... hundreds of thousands ... millennia, evolution (in terms of a drastic shift in DNA) occurs in "fits and starts." Could it be that civilization creates itself in a similar manner? Or is it because civilization requires parts x, y, and z and once those components exist within a small society it is firing on all cylinders and ready to explode into an historically-sized population/civilization? Or maybe it requires both, plus a little luck, maybe a little magic, maybe a little star dust.

 

The civilization lives on for a couple of thousand years and then implodes on itself as the results of complacency and immorality take their effect, or just simply lack of carrying capacity.

 

Religion usually demands of a people to continue creating offspring in order to perpetuate the beliefs of said religion (this is also written into surviving genetic codes, that is how the current species of the world still exist) the problem is that civilizations and species overpopulate.

 

I'm going to stop now ... but going back to the original post, in my mind 2012 means absolutely nothing. Our civilization may fail but I don't think anyone knows when or how. But I'm wrong all the time ... all the time.

[Sunya]

I asked Robert Bruce about this [if you don't know who he is: http://www.astraldynamics.com/ (he has highly developed clairvoyance)]

 

 

(5:04:35 PM) Robert Bruce: the reason lots of people see this is because lots of people believe in this. We need to counter this 'belief' so it is not manifested. So we need lots more people to believe in a bright future.

(5:05:12 PM) Robert Bruce: 2012 is just a date.

(5:05:49 PM) Robert Bruce: it will come and go and life will go on as usual. I am sure another date will replace this. Some people need a date ahead depicting change.

(5:05:59 PM) Robert Bruce: If you want to change the world, start with your self.

(5:07:29 PM) mix: ah, thank you for the response. so all the coincidential events (crash of financial systems,, mayan calendar) are only fueling this mass intention for smething to happen

(5:07:50 PM) Robert Bruce: yes

(5:08:02 PM) Robert Bruce: To put this in technical terms

(5:08:06 PM) Robert Bruce: Bollocks!

(5:08:27 PM) mix: hahah

(5:08:32 PM) Robert Bruce: this date will pass and life will go on

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Ignoring the 2012 date for the moment, it seems very conceivable that a total worldwide economic meltdown could occur in the next several years, given current financial structures. Perhaps inciting events such as the fall of the Pakistani government and the dispersal and use of their nuclear armaments by radical groups would be the trigger that could plunge the world into turmoil and the dawn of a 'new age' after a large die-off of the population and many years of misery and darkness.

 

 

At the rate at which things are now happening, some sort of similar scenario 'feels' very possible to me in a gut, intuitive sense, not just intellectually. And as an individuals, and even collectively, there is very little we can do. Pole shifts and such seem more like Y2K scares and not real likely.

 

So, what else to do but surrender, and live life as though it may not happen. Those who scheme to find a 'safe place' in this scenario are foolish.

 

.

Edited August 15, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[hyok]

Ignoring the 2012 date for the moment, it seems very conceivable that a total worldwide economic meltdown could occur in the next several years, given current financial structures. Perhaps inciting events such as the fall of the Pakistani government and the dispersal and use of their nuclear armaments by radical groups would be the trigger that could plunge the world into turmoil and the dawn of a 'new age' after a large die-off of the population and many years of misery and darkness.

 

At the rate at which things are now happening, some sort of similar scenario 'feels' very possible to me in a gut, intuitive sense, not just intellectually. And as an individuals, and even collectively, there is very little we can do.

So, surrender!

.

 

If i took a fine balance of what I consider to be an idealistic and a pessimistic outlook on the near future, I would arrive at your scenario.

 

Although ruling out a dimensional shift is about as useful as ruling out magical beans....

 

but magic beans do exist!

[sabin1star]

Guys, I think 2012 is not a good time for human beings. ...

[snip]

 

This is ridiculous.

[h.uriahr]

This is ridiculous.

why?

[Vajrahridaya]

I asked Robert Bruce about this [if you don't know who he is: http://www.astraldynamics.com/ (he has highly developed clairvoyance)]

(5:04:35 PM) Robert Bruce: the reason lots of people see this is because lots of people believe in this. We need to counter this 'belief' so it is not manifested. So we need lots more people to believe in a bright future.

(5:05:12 PM) Robert Bruce: 2012 is just a date.

(5:05:49 PM) Robert Bruce: it will come and go and life will go on as usual. I am sure another date will replace this. Some people need a date ahead depicting change.

(5:05:59 PM) Robert Bruce: If you want to change the world, start with your self.

(5:07:29 PM) mix: ah, thank you for the response. so all the coincidential events (crash of financial systems,, mayan calendar) are only fueling this mass intention for smething to happen

(5:07:50 PM) Robert Bruce: yes

(5:08:02 PM) Robert Bruce: To put this in technical terms

(5:08:06 PM) Robert Bruce: Bollocks!

(5:08:27 PM) mix: hahah

(5:08:32 PM) Robert Bruce: this date will pass and life will go on

 

People in large groups have thought that Armageddon was coming throughout so many turning points in history. Can you imagine what the black plague did to peoples ideas about life?

 

It's interesting Michaelz. I don't know if you remember me saying the same thing about this 1012 thing that any events are dependently originated as in the arising circumstances depend upon group consensus and the power of group mind manipulation. That lifetimes of group faith manifest situations that reify the idea to begin with.

 

I agree with Robert, that really it comes down to us, and what we make happen as a whole and that the group subconscious creative mind matrix has so much power over what we consciously experience as a global community.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

People in large groups have thought that Armageddon was coming throughout so many turning points in history. Can you imagine what the black plague did to peoples ideas about life?

 

It's interesting Michaelz. I don't know if you remember me saying the same thing about this 1012 thing that any events are dependently originated as in the arising circumstances depend upon group consensus and the power of group mind manipulation. That lifetimes of group faith manifest situations that reify the idea to begin with.

 

I agree with Robert, that really it comes down to us, and what we make happen as a whole and that the group subconscious creative mind matrix has so much power over what we consciously experience as a global community.

 

 

 

Yeah, nice thought, except that the whole financial/economic structure is really a shaky house of cards that is filled with 'toxic debts' and 'credit swap derivatives' that even the corrupt and greedy players don't understand. And this "structure" remains intact. The current economic difficulties are nothing compared to what could happen. The current situation may get a whole lot worse. Just read some of Nobel Prizewinning economist Paul Krugman. He's very worried. Add something like the fall of Pakistan and nuclear scenarios as a result of that in even a few major cities across the world, and everything shuts down. Look at what the death of just 3,000 in the 9/11 attacks did economically. That' why the government is freaked about Pakistan.

 

The "subconscious creative mind matrix" will be just so much new age pixie dust.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[thelerner]

Yeah, nice thought, except that the whole financial/economic structure is really a shaky house of cards that is filled with 'toxic debts' and 'credit swap derivatives' that even the corrupt and greedy players don't understand. And this "structure" remains intact. The current economic difficulties are nothing compared to what could happen. The current situation may get a whole lot worse. Just read some of Nobel Prizewinning economist Paul Krugman. He's very worried. Add something like the fall of Pakistan and nuclear scenarios as a result of that in even a few major cities across the world, and everything shuts down. Look at what the death of just 3,000 in the 9/11 attacks did economically. That' why the government is freaked about Pakistan.

 

The "subconscious creative mind matrix" will be just so much new age pixie dust.

.

 

Well if you look at it that way, then 2012 is a good thing! It gives us 2 1/2 years to live it up. Those things can happen next week, they were probably more likely to happen last year. Economics is rightly called the Dismal science. Three economists will generally point in 4 directions.

 

I think the government is more freaked out about the hysterical reaction to their health care plan. If you were to get freaked out about Pakistan you'd have been in a constant freak for the past 3+ years. For better or worse when craziness becomes the norm its taken in stride, madness and all.

 

Which brings me to my next point:

 

Our modern economic structure has always been based on illusion. Money is worth whatever we agree it is, stocks just paper and ink; monopoly game money is at least limited and countable, but most S&P companies have 10's of billions of shares outstanding giving people fake ownership measured in the billionth .

 

Strangely it works. There's even an efficiency to it that creates prosperity. There are expansions and crashes always will be.

 

I find what looks like change is really just the Pendulum of Fashions swinging back and forth.

 

Michael

[TianXian]

The earth going to be 21 December 2012 with the sun and the center of the galaxy going to be in a line, is like counter the ecuator of our galaxy, then the magnetic poles of our earth can change, doing that Qi Gong Master must find sure something new to learn or to get, to win or lose, but if really magnetic poles change that can be a catastrophic to out earth with earthquakes etc

 

all that info is here:

 

 

ps. sorry my bad english