Lots of questions!

[Spiritualseeker]

Hello all!

 

I hope you will please entertain my many questions. I have no formal introduction to Taoism so please excuse my ignorance.

 

1) Is there any deities or a Deity in the Taoist way of life and ritual?

 

2) Can enlightenment be achieved through a Taoist type practice?

 

3) can people convert over to a Taoist way of life or does one have to be born into it?

 

4) is there life after death?

 

5) Do Taoist believe in reincarnation?

 

6) Are there other realms than the realm we are currently in?

 

7) Does Taoism also focus on Ancestor guides?

 

8) Does Taoism have any mystical practices like lucid dreaming?

 

9) What are we? Are we a soul? A spirit? What is the Taoist definition of what we are?

 

10) Do Taoist pray? If so to whom?

 

11) What types of meditation are taught in the taoist tradition?

 

12) Can someone link me to some reading material on Taoism for beginners?

 

13) Were we created? If so by what or whom?

 

14) Does Taoism have an explanation for those who have seen the deceased in dreams who give vivid messages that prove true in waking life?

 

15) do we have spirit guides?

 

16) Are there any angels?

 

17) are there heavenly realms?

 

I will stop at that. Please if someone can answer just one or two I will greatly appreciate it

 

with loving kindness

-Juan

[Aetherous]

3) can people convert over to a Taoist way of life or does one have to be born into it?

 

I think the religion you grow up with is the one that sticks with you, regardless of anything.

[Spiritualseeker]

Well my parents didnt follow a religion nor taught me of one.

[Aetherous]

Then that's the religion you'll be best at.

[Wayfarer64]

Religion is vaccuos... empty as a shell- and it is a shell-game as well!

 

the way of life that one strives for - is where the energy is driven...

 

If you hope to become a better person - just follow the golden rule...

 

if you want to become enlightened - meditate until you give up...

that will lighten your mood anyway! ( or reach some new light source within you)...

 

The Way is just the best way you can manage to be for yrself & the greater harmony of the life around ya...

 

love to all- Pat

[Stigweard]

Edited May 1, 2009 by Stigweard

[Spiritualseeker]

Thank you wayfarer and stigweard!

 

 

so there is a practice of lucid dreaming is there anywhere I can read a Taoist understanding of lucid dreaming or guide to lucid dreaming?

 

So Taoist worship nature is this like the Shamanic cultures?

 

What are some basic meditation a beginner can learn?

 

Thank you for the FAQ!

 

Also have you seen many westerners come to the Taoist way of life?

 

Thank you much

-Juan

[Taoist81]

I think the religion you grow up with is the one that sticks with you, regardless of anything.

 

That is not necessarily true for everyone. Some of us have found that we are completely opposed to the religion we were raised in, either for reasons of education or for having found one that better fit/explained our situations or selves. It may stick with you in memory, but one can completely divest oneself from the religion of one's childhood.

[WhiteTiger]

Dear Juan,

 

I hope that these questions help in some way.

 

So Taoist worship nature is this like the Shamanic cultures?

 

I'm not sure really, whats your perspective of Shamanic Cultures?

Although I'm not fond of the use of terms worship nature. But Nature is something that is not to be disturbed. In Taoist practices its through the understanding of nature "as we grow, or cultivate" that we start to understand how nature works. What is natural is all part of nature and so is Taoism. It is the natural way.

 

Although this explanation is not satisfactory I'm sure it is something that you have to experience on your own. Many things about Taoism reflects and explains many things in many if not all things you encounter in life. Although experience will best explain a lot of its teachings, without the experience without its practice it isn't Taoism.

 

What are some basic meditation a beginner can learn?

standing meditations, Zhan Zhuang like meditations... other forms of stillness meditation. Taijiquan "Tai Chi" may be one of the best places to start for learning about experiencing of Taoist practices.

 

Peace, Virtue,

WTiger

[Deepbluesea]

As a rule of thumb, statistics show that we vote the same way as our parents and follow the same religion.

 

That is only a rule of thumb. I grew up in a Christian household and ended up resenting the guilt of the idea of someone being nailed to a cross on my behalf. I think that there are many great teachings of Christianity but they get lost in guilt and organization.

 

I ended up being pretty agnostic but I like the looseness of Taoism and Zen. They are more religions of nature than of man to me.

[Taoist81]

As a rule of thumb, statistics show that we vote the same way as our parents and follow the same religion.

 

That is only a rule of thumb. I grew up in a Christian household and ended up resenting the guilt of the idea of someone being nailed to a cross on my behalf. I think that there are many great teachings of Christianity but they get lost in guilt and organization.

 

I ended up being pretty agnostic but I like the looseness of Taoism and Zen. They are more religions of nature than of man to me.

 

Ah, those three great lies "White lies, damn lies and statistics". : ) half kidding since statistics do have their place.

You are right, there is a tendancy to follow ones parents, after all, they raised you. However, think of how many people, say, voted against the desegregation or the like vs. how many people voted for a black president (please note: this is taking a massively complex example and using only part of it to address the point at hand). Change tends to happen slowly overall, but quickly individually. Another example is the fact that "non-religous" and/or agnostic are among the few growing "religious" groups in America. This from a couple of generations of parents who in the 40's had regular clearly Christian prayer with the President broadcast nationally. Saying that one should follow a religion because one was raised in it is overly simplistic and naive.

[WhiteTiger]

Well said Taoist81. I do agree.

 

Although it should be understood and clearly recognized that you should respect where you come from. Do not forget where you come from and do not think ill of where you come from. No matter how different or cruel it may be.

[Taoist81]

Well said Taoist81. I do agree.

 

Although it should be understood and clearly recognized that you should respect where you come from. Do not forget where you come from and do not think ill of where you come from. No matter how different or cruel it may be.

 

 

Agreed completely. Where you came from definitely plays into who you have become (even if you have come far). And a well balanced person is not one who hates oneself.

[Deepbluesea]

Well said Taoist81. I do agree.

 

Although it should be understood and clearly recognized that you should respect where you come from. Do not forget where you come from and do not think ill of where you come from. No matter how different or cruel it may be.

 

What if your father was Hitler? Normally I would agree with you, but are there not times when someone should absolutely reject their lineage? Should they not realize heinous crimes against others, think ill of and disrespect those crimes? What if you grew up in a household that preached that you should persecute and kill those that didn't believe the same things that you did?

 

I think that looking to one's lineage and feeling "required" to give respect when their actions have not been admirable creates a lot of inner strife. I know that it has created anger in me that I am trying to deal with in a healthy way.

 

I feel embarrassed that I harbor this anger because I thought that I was passed it, I thought I was better than anger now, but in fact I had just swept it under the carpet.

 

I am interested in your answer because I want to know, while the above is simply hypothetical, how do you respect and not think ill of your lineage when they have conducted themselves in a heinous manner?

[i_am_sam]

I think the religion you grow up with is the one that sticks with you, regardless of anything.

 

forgive me for not reading the rest of the thread but I entirely disagree, your welcone to your opinion scotty and if you believe it thens its true, for you. Other realities may vary. I for one was raised and grew up an atheist, I don't really want to label what I am now, taosim is probably the closest 'religion' that strikes a chord with me in terms of balancing mental, spiritual and physical harmony and how I live in this world.

So I didn't actually grow up with a religion, so maybe am at the back of the queue in terms of pertinent points to be made regarding the original post and your reply, but can't help wanting to interject when I read such self limiting words. You(everybody) are whoever and whatever religion you want to be regardless of how you raised.

 

 

make it so!

 

S x

 

edit for spelling

 

edit for the OP. No. 15, yes.

Edited May 13, 2009 by i_am_sam

[SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist]

1) Is there any deities or a Deity in the Taoist way of life and ritual?

Yes countless ones

 

2) Can enlightenment be achieved through a Taoist type practice?

Certainly thats the goal of the art,

 

3) can people convert over to a Taoist way of life or does one have to be born into it?

It is a way of living, for everyone of the world, being Chinese may help you understand some of the culture behind it as well as some of the writings better as a translation from a chinese character to english sometimes gets a confused meaning, for example the character used for emptiness, really refers to clarity people make so much of it, but that is from a westerners translation, empitness refers to clarity or being clear minded. Which is kind of the same thing when you get that but can be confusing for some, as empitness is not the same as oblivion or dead void.

 

4) is there life after death?

According to taoist most people end up as hungry ghosts kind of like wisps of energy that will eventually fade away, there are several level of attainment, those with a bit more energy may end up as a spirit which is positive energy but also temporary, then come the immortal categories, there are earthly immortals those who will be like spirits on earth but permanent, Spiritual immortals like ungraded versions of the earthly that may pass on to the heavenly realms, and lastly there are celestial immortals which are pretty much unfathomable because they are so perfected that even their physical bodies are transmuted to energy.

5) Do Taoist believe in reincarnation?

Yes but not the same way as hidues the laws of karma are there but practicing the way already indicates many cycles of good karma to even know of it and practice it, so their is no sense in worrying about what you once were, they feel it's more important to worry about what you might or might not become.

 

6) Are there other realms than the realm we are currently in?

According to them yes many different level even in the celestial realm.

 

7) Does Taoism also focus on Ancestor guides?

Absolutely worshipping your ancestors particularly your mother and father is considered very important in Chinese culture.

 

8) Does Taoism have any mystical practices like lucid dreaming?

Yes, I have been there ALOT, but to be honest this is wrong, because it's kind of like running your mind all night long, and if you've ever done it you know that afterwards you wake up kind of tired and dull feeling, mastery will actually clear you of dreams, so you sleep sound as baby.

 

9) What are we? Are we a soul? A spirit? What is the Taoist definition of what we are?

See question 4.

10) Do Taoist pray? If so to whom?

See question 1 and 7

11) What types of meditation are taught in the taoist tradition?

Countless my method as taught is the method of no focus point, most mediations utilize a focus of somekind, turning the water wheel, focusing on the dan tien, etc, we are taught to just sit upright be calm and clear yet aware and alert, you will see this is far more subtle and difficult than it sounds because it is far easier to close things out when you bite down on something with your mind, but without any brace all you can do is find the subtle mysterious pass which can't be spoken of only experienced, ultimately from my research I have found this to be the highest method(I will say for me because I do not wish to offend anyone's art saying I am better than they so please no offense apologies in advanced, again better for me thats it not for everyone) I wish to make no offense here

 

12) Can someone link me to some reading material on Taoism for beginners?

Anything by translated by Thomas Cleary best book from my perspective Vitality Energy and Spirit a Taoist source book by thomas cleary, that alone should last you a lifetime.

 

13) Were we created? If so by what or whom?

This one is tough, tradition speaks of Pan Gu emerging from the cosmic egg, in paintings of christ and such we also see this cosmic egg, I don't know what it's significance is but in any case we will all find out someday right ?

 

14) Does Taoism have an explanation for those who have seen the deceased in dreams who give vivid messages that prove true in waking life?

See question 4

 

15) do we have spirit guides?

See question 4 and 7

 

16) Are there any angels?

One might equate them to immortals, as any good spirits might be considered such being. There are also something I don't even know if I should really speak of but whatever your question though unrelated made me think of it so I will, they are called old Gods, Gods from before the void, before Wu Ji pre chaos Gods, I know little of them but I have heard about them from my Taoist Teacher in Taiwan, he doesn't seem to want to talk about them when I asked him, but he did say a little, just that even from the standpoint of immortals they are very very old, and from the way he said it, he seemed disturbed to even mention it, so my guess is that is not a power we want to mess with, I once meditated upon it to try and find an answer what I got was something that even for me was very very uncomfortable, like something really really deadly, as if death and destruction were something you could smell and taste and feel, rage anger, locked away, not very pleasant.

 

17) are there heavenly realms?

see question 6

[SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist]

I wanted to say something more about question 3, what is unique about Taoism is that you could really be any religion and still practice the principles of the Tao, that is what was always so special to me about it, people that are free agents in the world of spirituality are in some ways lucky and in others unlucky, because when it comes down to it the Great Way is about being clear minded so as not to waste mental or spiritual energy, without any sort of extra methodolgy from that the flower will bloom over time, those who have no religion can in someways take the best from the all, but in other ways they feel as if they have no home and often feel lost. Because those that already have a religion just follow what they are told and don't have to worry about it. This is what appeals to me about Christianity, not the haters Christians ok, but the good ones, yes there are good ones and before you start hating too remember that if you do just cause I say Christian your no different than that your being agressive towards. One of my mentors for example, he is Christian and was born into it, he follows it but is not overly religious, he once explained to me how he did things, he said when he goes to church he lights a candle and prays for his children's safety and that of his friends and loved ones, then he goes out into the hall and has a cup of coffee. Simple right ? There are times when I do wish my spirituality were that simple.

Edited May 13, 2009 by SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist

[Taoist81]

What if your father was Hitler? Normally I would agree with you, but are there not times when someone should absolutely reject their lineage? Should they not realize heinous crimes against others, think ill of and disrespect those crimes? What if you grew up in a household that preached that you should persecute and kill those that didn't believe the same things that you did?

 

I think that looking to one's lineage and feeling "required" to give respect when their actions have not been admirable creates a lot of inner strife. I know that it has created anger in me that I am trying to deal with in a healthy way.

 

I feel embarrassed that I harbor this anger because I thought that I was passed it, I thought I was better than anger now, but in fact I had just swept it under the carpet.

 

I am interested in your answer because I want to know, while the above is simply hypothetical, how do you respect and not think ill of your lineage when they have conducted themselves in a heinous manner?

 

You can reject the tenets of your lineage or tradition without rejecting the benefit that you garnered from it. What benefit you may ask, the benefit of being able to see that side clearly and understanding better than most the damage that it does and the potential for growth from anywhere. Understand there are those here who were raised in racist households, who lived through cults etc.. After coming out of any of that you have two choices, 1.) you feel horrible for it and feel crippled by it for life, or 2.) you look at what you learned from it and how it helped you grow into the person you are today. If you choose to go for the latter you need to get to a point where you like yourself. Once you like yourself you see how you benefited from the bad situation you came from. It is a choice though (albeit a choice which you may be more or less likly to make dependant on your past experiences, but this line of thought will take us into a deeper existential discussion not absolutely necessary for the present topic).

[Deepbluesea]

You can reject the tenets of your lineage or tradition without rejecting the benefit that you garnered from it. What benefit you may ask, the benefit of being able to see that side clearly and understanding better than most the damage that it does and the potential for growth from anywhere. Understand there are those here who were raised in racist households, who lived through cults etc.. After coming out of any of that you have two choices, 1.) you feel horrible for it and feel crippled by it for life, or 2.) you look at what you learned from it and how it helped you grow into the person you are today. If you choose to go for the latter you need to get to a point where you like yourself. Once you like yourself you see how you benefited from the bad situation you came from. It is a choice though (albeit a choice which you may be more or less likly to make dependant on your past experiences, but this line of thought will take us into a deeper existential discussion not absolutely necessary for the present topic).

 

 

In a previous post WT said that "you should respect where you come from." I think there is a huge difference between that and picking and choosing the aspects that were worthwhile -- my mom sucked, she abused me and everyone around her and left me with horrible problems (hypothetical again). You are saying that I should respect her because despite how screwed up I would be if this were real, I have gleaned so much from her cruelty, that I should actually respect her for teaching me how not to be. I guess if you can convince yourself into that backward logic, you can convince yourself into thinking anything.

 

Thinking ill of where you came from IS, like WT said and you advocate, probably a mistake because the feelings of anger end up letting your bad past control you ... enslaving you with your own anger. But not thinking ill of and actually respecting your past are two different things entirely -- the past should just exist -- it should just "be" -- rather than being good or bad ... "it is what it is".

 

I don't have a problem liking myself, its probably the opposite if anything, I have a problem looking at horrible things that a family member has done and continues to do and being expected to repect them. Probably a different topic altogether, but it does tie in to choosing the same religion as your folks.

[Taoist81]

In a previous post WT said that "you should respect where you come from." I think there is a huge difference between that and picking and choosing the aspects that were worthwhile -- my mom sucked, she abused me and everyone around her and left me with horrible problems (hypothetical again). You are saying that I should respect her because despite how screwed up I would be if this were real, I have gleaned so much from her cruelty, that I should actually respect her for teaching me how not to be. I guess if you can convince yourself into that backward logic, you can convince yourself into thinking anything.

 

Thinking ill of where you came from IS, like WT said and you advocate, probably a mistake because the feelings of anger end up letting your bad past control you ... enslaving you with your own anger. But not thinking ill of and actually respecting your past are two different things entirely -- the past should just exist -- it should just "be" -- rather than being good or bad ... "it is what it is".

 

I don't have a problem liking myself, its probably the opposite if anything, I have a problem looking at horrible things that a family member has done and continues to do and being expected to repect them. Probably a different topic altogether, but it does tie in to choosing the same religion as your folks.

 

It seems we (not speaking for WT necessarily) are using different words to say the same thing.

One doesn't have to respect a rotten individual to respect the "event" of having lived through it. Perhaps a better way of saying the above would be to respect the lessons learned from where you came from.

[SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist]

I'm pretty sure when he said you should respect where you come from he meant well, saying what if your father was hitler is just silly. Is it not ? Do you really think that person meant that even if you were the son of the worlds most famous evil dictator you should humbly follow in his footsteps. Thats like if I said you should respect your parents, and you saying but what if your parents are murderers and rapists, and engineered airborn ebola to end the existence of humans. Come on man, really? One should not take things to be absolutes. What you said makes me think you almost want to start an argument.

[Deepbluesea]

I'm pretty sure when he said you should respect where you come from he meant well, saying what if your father was hitler is just silly. Is it not ? Do you really think that person meant that even if you were the son of the worlds most famous evil dictator you should humbly follow in his footsteps. Thats like if I said you should respect your parents, and you saying but what if your parents are murderers and rapists, and engineered airborn ebola to end the existence of humans. Come on man, really? One should not take things to be absolutes. What you said makes me think you almost want to start an argument.

 

In an attempt not to sound argumentative, White Tiger made a very absolute statement, and I was merely trying to clarify it for myself. I was using extremes to test the absolute.

 

In the future, to keep you happy, I will try and refrain from asking any below-the-surface questions. I will try and be a good sheep and just follow the herd.

 

Love always,

Dave

[Birch Tree]

I think the religion you grow up with is the one that sticks with you, regardless of anything.

 

Hi Scotty,

 

I appreciate your point of view, but I must disagree with it. I believe that I personally would have been spiritually held back if I had stuck with the religion I grew up with, and I suspect that many other people feel the same. For myself, I have "tried on" numerous religions from highly organized to shamanistic to atheism and agnosticism during my spiritual journey. Having discovered Taoism, I finally feel like I am home. Still, I never would have found Taoism had my journey not taken me through so many other widely varying sets of religious beliefs.

 

Also, there has been some discussion on this thread about whether or not we should respect the religions that we grew up with. Absolutely I think that we should. We should recognize, however, that the challenges and shortcomings of our past religion(s) were important stepping stones in our spiritual development and growth--these challenges provided us with opportunities to grow and develop. So, I think we should respect our past religions, because they were important waypoints on our spiritual path. I think we can respect our past religions while still recognizing that we saw problems with them or that they were not a good fit for us.

 

This of course is my own humble view.

 

All the best,

Birch Tree

[Deepbluesea]

I'm pretty sure when he said you should respect where you come from he meant well, saying what if your father was hitler is just silly. Is it not ? Do you really think that person meant that even if you were the son of the worlds most famous evil dictator you should humbly follow in his footsteps. Thats like if I said you should respect your parents, and you saying but what if your parents are murderers and rapists, and engineered airborn ebola to end the existence of humans. Come on man, really? One should not take things to be absolutes. What you said makes me think you almost want to start an argument.

 

I am feeling guilty that I may have insulted Taoist81 and WhiteTiger. So I wanted to sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. Perhaps it is my lack of use of emoticons and my words choice, I meant no disrespect. And thank you, Ultimatefist, for bringing it up that I may have offended someone.

 

This should probably go in another topic altogether, my apologies to the original poster for adding it here. It is still along the lines of rejecting your family and their religion. And before I start, I am not meaning any disrespect toward you, Ultimatefist. The "Come on man, really?" and then the roll eyes kind of gets under my skin though. But I am a little on edge trying to deal with anger and a lot of difficult questions right now, I know normally I would laugh at it.

 

You mentioned in another post how it really sucks to be in the car with a family when they have lost someone dear to them. Six and a half years ago (and it continues to some extent) I had to console my wife after her brother lost a round of Russian roulette ... good times.

 

He had been kicked out of the house at 15, he never got along with his folks, as I never have, his wishes had been to have his ashes scattered in the ocean and absolutely not be buried. I often tell my wife that if I had grown up in her house I would have ended up the same way as her brother.

 

My wife's grandmother died a short time ago and her burial service was one week ago today. Unbeknownst to us the event was to be a double-feature, my wife's mom scheduled a burial service for her brother too ... to be buried instead of scattered in the ocean. She and her interpretation of her religion fucked him over in life and in death. Without going into detail, she has had family members unjustly arrested, owes us thousands of dollars, and is just generally a miserable and difficult person to be around.

 

So, Ultimatefist, tell me, as I try to figure out if I am going to try (with all of my being) and continue respecting her and her bullshit, am I taking things to absolutes? Am I just trying to create an argument? Is it okay for me to dig a little deeper and ask a couple of questions here and there?

 

"I'm not pissed off, I'm a mushroom cloud laying motherfucker, motherfucker" but I am doing a lot of things to help myself and my wife get through this, this event really was just one of hundreds of really bad things she has done. We would prefer to never see her again but that is probably not realistic. How does my wife look back on this and not think ill of, and not disrespect her lineage and her religion?

 

p.s.

 

I assume Santiago will be in the ether tonight at 11. I will be there too, trying to emit a flicker of a flame.

[SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist]

Deepbluesea,

I personally meant no disrespect either, you have every right to say and post what you want, and if you wish to test an absolute with an extreme by all means you should do so, I know when I said what I was saying I was probably just being overly realistic, and clearly we must not take ourselves too seriously sometimes. So please accept my apologies, your reply clearly shows me that you are not the sort who would seek to start an argument and I'm sorry I suggested that. In other words, by being humble you have humbled me. Good Job there cause I like that feeling.