Golden Flower Meditation help!

[awake]

I am referring to the meditation written about here: http://www.goldenflowermeditation.com/

 

More specifically, this is the page: http://www.goldenflowermeditation.com/the_method.html

 

I had been quieting my mind for a while before discovering this. The meditation author says to wait about 100 days before you detect the movement of breath. I did it in 2, but not into my stomach, etc, as he says, just in my windpipe. Maybe my prior work with my mind explains this. Anyway, I "reversed it" like said in the method,and could feel that it was so. Not much (maybe about 2 hours cumulatively in ~1 week) of my time since then has been spent doing this exercise.

 

However, right now, I am feeling a feeling that goes up and down my spine, from my root chakra, to about 3/4 up my back. It doesn't go higher than that. When it reaches 3/4, like clockwork my mind speeds up.

 

I am worried, because he says NOT to do imagination work, etc, it can cause the "seminal fluid" (lets not get into a debate of if thats what it really is) to "go up the wrong channels" and cause debilitating effects. I found some hemi-sync product that said breathe in, out, then clench your pubic muscles (try and isolate them) and imagine your kunalini energy go up your spine or something to that effect. I did the visualizations a few times.

 

The feeling is not "good" i would call it neutral, and the spine is a very tender area, so I want to be sure before proceeding. I did also take drugs during this time and while I do (weed) I am able to feel more so I experience feeling my feelings, etc.

 

Could this having visualized have a negative impact on me? Also, why do you think it only stops at 3/4 of the way?

[Spirit Ape]

Best meditation is stillness "Emptiness" or Void all will manifest from that no need for the hype of Golden Flower!

 

PLus, if you quieten down enough and be silent and still you will find your ownself no need for guru or teacher on this important path!

 

Just need to understand a few things before you do it, how to breath is most important....

Edited May 1, 2009 by Spirit Ape

[goldisheavy]

May I?

 

Ok, first of all, I recommend not to use any specific visualizations until your contemplation has been firmly established. You're not much of a thinker yet. You don't really understand phenomena. You don't understand your own feelings and you don't even know what you believe. You have thousands of unexamined, taken-for-granted beliefs right now, floating in your mind and affecting you. So if you attempt to visualize specific things in that situation, you risk doing bad things to yourself. Why? That's because your visualization is too specific, so you are like playing with some specific part of a car engine without understanding how it works. You can get your hands cut off, or the car might blow up... You best not do that.

 

So what is a safe beginner visualization? It has to be abstract, generic. For example, visualize kindness. Focus on love. Focus on peace. Focus on a vision of diffuse gentle light -- non-specific light. It shouldn't be some concrete and specific light. It should not be in any specific location. It should be closer to the idea of light than to something that appears next to a lit light bulb. Keep it general. Do not touch your body organs in a specific way. Like don't focus on your kidney. Do not focus on your spine. That's too specific. You can visualize your body brimming with health. That's SAFE. That's general and non-specific so it can't hurt you as easily. And don't overdo it either. Too much of even water leads to premature death.

 

And finally, don't just follow meditations uncritically. You should become a contemplator. Think! Deeply. Quietly. Peacefully. Think. Contentedly. Playfully curiously think. Every day. For years. Ask questions. I don't mean ask people questions. Ask yourself questions! Yourself. Ask yourself. Then quiet. And listen. You will see. Much bullshit will fall away. Many unexamined beliefs will melt into irrelevance. New insights will emerge. After you do this for many many years, eventually you'll develop great, GREAT sensitivity and insight. When things happen, you'll know why. You'll also know many alternatives. For example you'll know how things could have happened and how they can develop in the future along many alternative paths and you will also know how to pick one path over the other etc.. At that point, you'll also have good insight into the specifics of various details. THEN it is safe to do specific, concrete visualizations. Then you may understand your body so well (if that's a topic of your contemplation that comes up often during the years!) that it's OK and safe and even good to do some specific body organ visualization to tweak something in your body. Until then, don't tweak what you don't understand.

 

Let me give you this example.

 

Imagine you arrive before a big orchestra. The orchestra players know how to play. But you're a newbie conductor who doesn't know how to conduct. If you try to tell individual players how to play (giving too specific a direction) you will create garbage sound. But if you just generally say "guys, play faster", then it will be OK, because the orchestra players can naturally play fairly well even without help, and just telling them to play faster will not have a disastrous effect. You won't be micromanaging them. Then, after much, much experience and study, you will understand every orchestra player in and out, and THEN and only then you can safely give directions to speed up only the TUBA player or to make only some violin a little louder and nothing else, etc. But if you try to micromanage without understanding, the obvious result is failure. So in the beginning, let your direction be general, abstract.

 

Good luck! And don't take yourself too seriously.

[Creation]

Dear awake,

 

Have you tried to contact JJ Semple about this? That would really be a good idea. If you PM april on this forum she can put you in touch with him. From what I have read, reversing the flow should be sufficient to get the kundalini going, so don't push it with muscular contractions or visualization unless you really know what you are doing (at least have the ability to root, still the mind, and feel your bodily and emotional sensations with and equanimous and positive state of mind.) Actually, I would strongly recommend getting to that state before you try to raise your kundalini at all.

 

On that note, if you are not seriously dedicated to spiritual practice (which your on-and-off attitude toward practice and reliance on drugs to get in a meditative mindset indicate) why in the word are you messing with kundalini arousing practices? I don't mean to make you more afraid, but seriously, if he said to reverse the circulation in your lower abdomen when you become aware of it, you are taking a serious risk by reversing the feeling of circulation in your throat. Kundalini arousal is not a game or a curiosity and you can seriously mess yourself up if you use improper methods. JJ warned against visualization for this reason, but probably thought it went without saying that you should follow his instructions to the letter. From reading his memoir, it seems like he would have reversed the flow wherever he felt it too. But that he felt it where he did and that what he subsequently did was so successful for him is an extraordinary stroke of fortune, and certainly seems to me like the exception rather than the rule. [Edit: not quite correct, and presumptuous of me to speak for him. See april's post below and my reply.]

 

On the bright side, you are getting results and nothing you have reported sounds too aberrant for this type of practice. If you do find that things are getting too rough, there are people with healing abilities around here that could help you. Keep us posted.

 

I wish you all the best in your cultivation.

Your friend,

Tyler

Edited May 2, 2009 by Creation

[Mokona]

Best meditation is stillness "Emptiness" or Void all will manifest from that no need for the hype of Golden Flower!

 

PLus, if you quieten down enough and be silent and still you will find your ownself no need for guru or teacher on this important path!

 

Just need to understand a few things before you do it, how to breath is most important....

 

 

Can you get into more detail about stillness meditation and how it benefits the meditator? Thanks!

[awake]

Last night I felt the energy in various places. To the left of my spine in the middle, and some places, the energy was a distraction (annoyance). Then, it seemed to pool at the bottom of my spine, and stayed there for a while.

 

I figure, there is nothing left I can do now. The energy is there. I will not do anymore visualizations, but try and feel the energy when it does arise.

 

The thing is, I did some work with Richard Bandler's DHE 2000, where he teeaches how to call states up. So I am able to call this energy up when I want to, should I be doing that?

 

Its like goldisheavy said, just a general feeling, but once I've had it, especially soon after, I can call it back. Should I be doing so, working on actually making good states, or just releasing, letting what happens happen and watch it pass by?

[april]

[Creation]

Very clear and helpful advice, as usual JJ .

 

What you said about listening to your body is dead on. I didn't really get the impression that that's what you did from your memoir, but that you basically guessed what the reversing the breath was from the cryptic text. So sorry for speaking presumptuously. Your story becomes more inspiring the more I hear .

 

I still can't feel the circulation in my lower abdomen (still trying, of course), and I'm still not sure if reversing it is something I would go through with if I could, but I am certainly still grateful to be able to communicate with you!

 

All the best,

Tyler

Edited May 2, 2009 by Creation

[Uncle Fester]

.

Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak

[awake]

Thank you all so far.

 

You have suggested a lot of reading. I do not have time for this.

 

I feel energy coming in through my root chakra. At the base of my spine, like where girls have dimples on their asses (thats the only metaphor I can tell you for it). It is moving around, sometimes in two spots (where the two dimples are) in circular motions, and sometimes just a bit above that, sometimes going more up in the spine, with only 1 source, and sometimes both at once.

 

The energy is a neutral one, My head is fariyl silent, and I am getting better at that. However, the thoughts that do come up, are fearful ones, and ones of negative concequences. All these scare tactics and "dont do this dont do that or you will get really fucked up" do not work well for me.

 

I need to know what to do. The energy is here. Breathing exercises or not, though I am inhaling and exhaling through my stomach, with my eyes closed/sometimes open. my thoughts are naturally on "go away" mode - as in, I am noticing the stillness between them, and not being so identified with them - and this is not something I really wish to remove my progress on. I have not read your books JJ, I don't have the money to buy them. Now I feel like I don't have the time. If this happening, I need to know asap, if I've unleashed a detrimental energy, or a good one. I cannot ell myself.

 

As for my breath, it is very silent. I noticed earlier today once or twice the breath coming into my abdomen, making a circular round, then coming back up. I have drawn a diagram in notepad to explain what it felt like, in my wind pipe, and today in my stomach. the blue line symbolizes the wind pipe experience (i can still feel that when I concentrate on my breath.) the red line symbolizes the stomach experience. Ihave never had the two together, it s one or the other.. What I drew was a human chest/abdomen/pelvic cavity, and windpipe.

 

I cannot always feel my breath, but I can always feel the energy there. Its only like two thing I've ever experienced before.

 

When I was high, I got ths feeling of the same neutrality in my chest. The next morning, stillthere. However, I was unsure of how good it was, so I made it go awya. After that, I got a feeling that replaced it that was bad, like I had jsut lost somethng. But I don't know if that bad feeling was the after effects of tht feeling being there in the first place, or if it was telling me to get that feeeling back in my chest.

 

Another time, I was laying down, and I heard the words "Let the universe in through your chest cavity" come from nowhere. Then I felt like a great powerul neutrality come in like a cone shape descending from the top into my chest, then I started to think and get worried like I am now with this root chakra energy, and it went away.

 

I think it is also important I note, JJ, I am 17. Tomorrow I will go to a nearby Maha Vihana (i think thats the name of it, i will quickly go bike down there afte I write this to get the real name) buddhist temple, to talk to the monks there. But I really hope that you can get to thispost and advise me, and ideally, if I could have some live dialogue with you, JJ. I feel this thing is unraveling in me, but I do not know what to do with it, and have no personal guide to turn to.

 

Here is the image to which i referred earlier:

 

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/83/kundalni.png

 

Thank you.

edit: i have another post below the one below mind quickly responding to that, and some more information.

Edited May 3, 2009 by awake

[neidan practitioner]

I am referring to the meditation written about here: http://www.goldenflowermeditation.com/

 

More specifically, this is the page: http://www.goldenflowermeditation.com/the_method.html

 

I had been quieting my mind for a while before discovering this. The meditation author says to wait about 100 days before you detect the movement of breath. I did it in 2, but not into my stomach, etc, as he says, just in my windpipe. Maybe my prior work with my mind explains this. Anyway, I "reversed it" like said in the method,and could feel that it was so. Not much (maybe about 2 hours cumulatively in ~1 week) of my time since then has been spent doing this exercise.

 

However, right now, I am feeling a feeling that goes up and down my spine, from my root chakra, to about 3/4 up my back. It doesn't go higher than that. When it reaches 3/4, like clockwork my mind speeds up.

 

I am worried, because he says NOT to do imagination work, etc, it can cause the "seminal fluid" (lets not get into a debate of if thats what it really is) to "go up the wrong channels" and cause debilitating effects. I found some hemi-sync product that said breathe in, out, then clench your pubic muscles (try and isolate them) and imagine your kunalini energy go up your spine or something to that effect. I did the visualizations a few times.

 

The feeling is not "good" i would call it neutral, and the spine is a very tender area, so I want to be sure before proceeding. I did also take drugs during this time and while I do (weed) I am able to feel more so I experience feeling my feelings, etc.

 

Could this having visualized have a negative impact on me? Also, why do you think it only stops at 3/4 of the way?

 

 

Hi Awake:

 

For a youger person whose vitality is quite full, it does not take much to start to open the 'Du Mai'

(or governing channel), which runs from the perineum to the base of the spine, and up

the spine to the head. There is another channel called the 'Ren Mai' that runs from the head

down the front of the body back to the perineum. The two channels together make up

the 'small heavenly circuit' or 'microcosmic orbit'. In Taoist internal alchemy, "reversing the

direction" means preventing the generative energy from taking its normal outlet through

the genitals (as occurs in the sex act), and instead 'reversing the flow' up the Du Mai and

back down the Ren Mai in the small heavenly circuit.

 

There are various points along the Du Mai channel, one being a point

on the spine between the shoulder blades. When first opening up the Du Mai channel, the

energy may not pass easily through some of the major points along this channel,

such as at the base of the spine, an area on the spine between the kidneys, an area between

the shoulder blades, and an area at the back of the head at the base of the skull, etc., until they

are fully opened. If you feel that energy has moved up the spine and stopped 3/4 of the way up,

it may just be that the energy is reaching a point along the Du Mai that is not open, so

the energy may begin to build up there until it can work its way through that point. Having the

energy stop at a point along the DU Mai or Ren Mai and start to collect there can sometimes be somewhat

uncomfortable and even quite intense at times. For this reason it is advised that one should

not use intention to try to move energy through the Du Mai and Ren mai, to open these channels,

but instead either just sit in the sitting meditation posture and focus on nothing, or keep an

awareness of your breathing, or keep an awareness of the dan tien area just a little below the

navel and in a bit. Energy will then naturally begin to build up in the dan tien area (a safe location

to hold the energy generated in meditation), and it will begin to flow through the Du Mai and Ren Mai

channels on its own when you have built up enough energy. That is not to say you still won't sometimes

experience discomfort at certain points along these channels as they are being opened up, which

sometimes may be quite intense as well, but allowing this to occur naturally is a safer way to go.

 

At any rate, you should do some serious research on this before experimenting, so you don't

cause yourself problems down the road, that might be hard to fix. Also, you should visualize

returning your energy to the dan tien area, as described above, if you are feeling discomfort

in your spine, or if you feel energy is still at the base of the spine. I would also suggest that you

avoid books that recommend you use visualization or intention to lead the energy up the spine.

 

Chapters 5 and 6 in Charles Luk's (AKA Lu Kuan Yu) 'The Secrets of Chinese Meditation', and

Charles Luk's 'Taoist Yoga' are good books to get a good overview of what Taoist meditation

is all about. Taoist Yoga is a very in depth book on the subject, but may be hard to understand

for someone new to Taoist meditation concepts.

 

By the way, it sounds like you are maybe just 'experimenting' with various things such as dope

and 'altered states of consciousness' for entertainment purposes. Not a good idea from

my perspective. For sure lose the dope if you care at all about your physical and mental

well being.

[awake]

Thank you neidan practitioner.

 

I do not have much time for this post, so sorry that I cannot say all that i want. I will as much as possible, in as succinct a way I can.

 

I went to the meditation center, its called "Maha Vihara" I think it's also quite interesting today is the birthday of the Buddha, they are celebrating it there. I am thinking of going.

 

JJ if I seem distressed it may be because I am very anxious due to the stern warning I've received about the heavy concequences of doing this the wrong way.

 

neidan, What do you mean by 'experimenting', meditating? THat's all I've been doing. Beathe in and out through abdomen, expanding/contracting the stomach, and continuing to lose identication with thoughts. I have not beens itting though, I find it uncomfortable. I have been laying down. I have fall asleep enough times

 

Also, you say I should not visualize my energy going up my spine, but that I should vidualize it going back down? I think by the logic of the first suggestion, the second does not make much sense.

 

On that same note, you say that I should do that if I feel the energy there still, is it not supposed to be active? Currently it is strongest at the base of my spine, sometimes I feel it up and down my spine.

 

Now I think I will go to that celebration. Thank you.

Edited May 3, 2009 by awake

[neidan practitioner]

Thank you neidan practitioner.

 

I do not have much time for this post, so sorry that I cannot say all that i want. I will as much as possible, in as succinct a way I can.

 

I went to the meditation center, its called "Maha Vihara" I think it's also quite interesting today is the birthday of the Buddha, they are celebrating it there. I am thinking of going.

 

JJ if I seem distressed it may be because I am very anxious due to the stern warning I've received about the heavy concequences of doing this the wrong way.

 

neidan, What do you mean by 'experimenting', meditating? THat's all I've been doing. Beathe in and out through abdomen, expanding/contracting the stomach, and continuing to lose identication with thoughts. I have not beens itting though, I find it uncomfortable. I have been laying down. I have fall asleep enough times

 

Also, you say I should not visualize my energy going up my spine, but that I should vidualize it going back down? I think by the logic of the first suggestion, the second does not make much sense.

 

On that same note, you say that I should do that if I feel the energy there still, is it not supposed to be active? Currently it is strongest at the base of my spine, sometimes I feel it up and down my spine.

 

Now I think I will go to that celebration. Thank you.

 

 

[Edit: I completely rewrote this reply to try to make it clearer and more to the point. ]

 

Hi Awake,

 

I was suggesting to try using mind intention to help return the energy to the dan tien

area if you are experiencing ill effects. If you are sitting and practicing meditation correctly,

in a proper sitting meditation posture, this is not normally necessary, as the energy will return

to the dan tien naturally, and of its own. I was just suggesting this in the event you were

experiencing some ill effects and wanted to relieve the situation right away, and didn't know

how to address that. Going for long walks may also help as well to help balance out any

energy imbalances that might occur.

 

To answer your questions about whether what you are experiencing is good or bad,

the racing mind thing and your current anxiousness are not good effects of meditation,

but may be a result from mixing smoking dope and meditation and the other stuff you were

doing as well, and also because of concern/alarm you may have about what you have been

experiencing. By the way, dope and meditation are taking you in two different directions and

may well cause various ill effects. Not a good idea at all. That is just asking for trouble, IMO.

Other than that, from what you have described so far, it sounds to me like you may have just

started opening up the Du Mai channel a bit.

The swirling or concentrated energy around the lower spine area is one of the sensations one

may well experience in such a case. I would recommend that you do stop any further practice,

and quit the dope altogether (it's called dope for a reason), until you get some

proper guidance, or until you do a lot more research on this first.

 

- np -

Edited May 3, 2009 by neidan practitioner

[april]

[neidan practitioner]

Awake, one last comment on this:

Regarding whether what you have been experiencing is related to kundalini type experiences,

or just related to starting to open the Du Mai channel, I can't say for sure as I don't know

much about the 'kundalini experience' other than what Gopi Krishna wrote in his first

book 'Kundalini'. My impression from reading Gopi Krishna's book was that kundalini is somewhat

different than what is experienced/achieved in Taoist meditation and other related forms of

chi kung (qigong), although it seems it is related. My impression from reading Gopi Krishna's book

is that the kundalini experience is likely to be a much more intense experience, although it may not

have to be that way, I don't really know. I was also under the impression that kundalini would be something

that you would have to work at for some time in meditation for it to activate, but that may not be the case as

well.

 

I do know that in Taoist meditation and chi kung, that the process of opening the Du Mai channel up

in the spine can cause various sensations of warmth, heat, cold, vibrations, swirling sensations, pressure, euphoric and pleasant feeings, discomfort, and such. A younger person would likely be able to initiate

this process with less time and effort, compared to an older person, when practicing the appropriate meditation techniques, since their vitality is already quite full to start off with. Awake, based on the limited

information you have provided so far about what you experienced (assuming you weren't

just trying to pull our legs ) I would be inclined to think that you have just started to open

up the Du Mai Channel, and this is not something to be too overly concerned about, but I would

suggest that you at least do more research on this first before proceeding further. Yes, you may

still continue to have similar experiences, as once the Du Mai starts to open the energy won't

just stop on a dime. However, if you stop the meditation practices until you do some more research

on this, you will at least reduce the risk of causing problems or bad effects. So, if that's the case, I don't

think you have too much to worry about.

However, if what you are experiencing is related to a 'kundalini awakening' type of experience, then I

might expect that you might continue to experience much more intense type stuff, even if you are not

continuing to practice meditation, and if so, you have JJ Semple here offering to give you guidance with that.

 

- np -

Edited May 3, 2009 by neidan practitioner

[awake]

Thank you all for your replies so far.

 

something interesting to note is that this energy seems to come up for me especially when I am reminded of it.

 

I was at a Maha Vihana buddhist meditation center today and asked the question, when experiencing an opening of energy in a chakra - for example the root chakra (where I am feeling this energy) is it better to concentrate your attention on that energy, or do something else with your attention? The monk said, admittedly, that is tibettan buddhism, which is another branch, different from theirs, that deals with chakras, but that I should,yes, put my attention on the energy, and perhaps read further on tibettan buddhism.

 

That being said, I was in a state of distress, because I was under the impression that awakening was "fast and ruthless" and can "tear people apart and put them back together again" based on JJ's website. I can see now that perhaps this is not the case, so I am a bit less alarmed, more calm, and willing to listen to reason. I will re-read all the posts and recognize that further learning on the subject is probably a good idea.

 

I do wish, however, to take advantage of this opening while it has come, as I have had many different sorts in the past that I denied or ignored, and I regretted that. Though I am starting to see now that it is fine that I missed them, I would not like to do that with this, if possible.

 

Your recommendation for walks seems to me as a method to dispell this energy, is this true? Is it in opposition - so to physical speak as far as the forces of energy are concerned, not as a dualistic paradox in religious philosophy - to the opening energy, or is it something that is neutral to it, or will aid in it?

 

Thank you.

[neidan practitioner]

 

I do wish, however, to take advantage of this opening while it has come, as I have had many different sorts in the past that I denied or ignored, and I regretted that. Though I am starting to see now that it is fine that I missed them, I would not like to do that with this, if possible.

 

Your recommendation for walks seems to me as a method to dispell this energy, is this true? Is it in opposition - so to physical speak as far as the forces of energy are concerned, not as a dualistic paradox in religious philosophy - to the opening energy, or is it something that is neutral to it, or will aid in it?

 

Thank you.

 

 

Hi awake, not sure if you were addressing your question to me, but anyway, walking can help

to balance out imbalances in the energy, but it doesn't reduce the energy or anything like that.

When you practice meditation, energy can move to certain sensitive areas of the body, and if the

energy remains there, it may cause unpleasant effects. For example, if energy is building up in the neck

or head area and remains there, you might experience headaches and the like. Walking can

help to relieve these kinds of situations by balancing the energy more evenly throughout the body.

(Sometimes these excessive build-ups of energy in certain parts of the body are referred to as 'stagnant chi').

Tai chi is also good for helping to bring the energy more into balanace, if a person knows it.

 

If you really don't want to stop your practice, then I may as well give some tips on how to

practice in a safer and more balanced way. This is just based on my own experience and research.

You should do more research and reading of course. You could start practicing sitting meditation (you can sit towards the front part of a chair if you don't like sitting cross legged on a cushion on the floor), and use the method of breathing slowly, softly, deep and naturally, and instead of focusing on any energetic or other sensations in the spine or elsewhere, just be mindful of your breathing, keeping it soft, slow and deep, or you can just keep a passive awareness of the dan tian area in the lower belly (not focusing strongly on it).

 

You should sit with your back straight, but not at all forced. Keep it natural and competely relaxed.

These are the basics of Taoist sitting meditation, and you will continue to naturally cultivate more energy

by practicing in this way. If you do meditation this way, and don't focus on any energetic sensations

and the like that are occurring, you can develop energy in a natural way, which is a safer and

healthy way to practice. Allow what happens to occur completely naturally and without any

forcing. If you focus on energetic or other sensations, you are more likely to cause imbalances

in the energy or other problems that may lead to bad effects. (I know the monk said he thought it might

be otherwise, but he did also mention that he does not do this type of practice ).

Anyway, I still highly recommend doing a lot more research on this as soon as possible, if you are planning

to continue, as I keep harping on.

 

Another problem is that there is a lot of conflicting info out there, so what do you believe?

Well, for one thing, if you are practicing on your own without a teacher, it is better to take a

safer approach than to not heed people's warnings and just blunder forth. If problems arise, you may

not be able to find someone who can help you out, and then what do you do?

 

In meditation, you will still be aware of energetic and other sensations occurring in the body, but the

idea is not to focus on them at all. Focusing on sensations or other effects is what can lead

to imbalances and problems. The meditator is kind of like a passive observer, being aware of what is going on,

but not giving direct focus and attention to anything that is going on. Just being aware and allowing whatever is going on to happen and to progress naturally and of its own accord.

 

BTW, you can also do the same kind of meditation in a standing posture with the feet shoulder width apart, and

toes facing forward, and the knees slightly bent. You can just let the hands hang down by the sides or

rest the palms lightly on the sides of the legs. This is a very effective chi kung meditation posture as well.

It is also a good way to build up energy and improve health.

 

Anyway, it sounds like you now realize that it is better to not just jump into such things without

some proper guidance and knowledge, so hopefully you will take peoples' advice and do

more research on this. There are many different approaches to meditation, but what I have been describing

would fall under the the category of Taoist meidtation or chi kung meditation. Anyway, good luck in

you research, and if your library has 'The Secrets of Chinese Meditation' by Charles Luk,

the chapters in that book on Taoist meditation contain some very good info on Taoist meditation.

It also contains excerpts of a book written by a guy in China who practiced Taoist meditation

and wrote about his experiences. That same book was also translated into English by 'Shi Fu Hwang' and

'Cheney Crow', and is entitled 'Tranquil Sitting'. No doubt there are other good books out there as well.

 

- np -

Edited May 4, 2009 by neidan practitioner

[awake]

Thank you.

 

I do not know if it is as a result of th negative thoughts I've been having about this process, or the actual opening of the channels, but the top 1/4 of my back is very sore today.

 

Until now, only either half would be sore at a time, now, for the first time, both are.

[goldisheavy]

It's very difficult, if not impossible, to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

I disagree. It's just as easy to pacify the "kundalini" phenomena as it is to stir it. I've done both myself. I've pacified mine because I didn't enjoy the sensation and because I found that I didn't need to feel that kind of sensation in order to feel powerful or to feel healthy or to feel magical or to feel spiritually whole, or to feel any other thing. Whatever I could imagine as my goal, I couldn't imagine how "kundalini" sensation would help to further it.

 

The only good thing I have to say about it is that it's fun and you can learn a thing or two from playing with it. However, all that can be done through other venues, like for example, lucid dreaming, or non-kundalini esoteric phenomena, which are not as annoying. You know, the hidden (non-public) phenomena are of many flavors. Getting wild heat/cold/electricity/whatever going up and down your spine or other body organs or up and down meridians is JUST ONE OPTION OF MANY.

 

Many people read this or that master talk about Kundalini and simply assume, "This is IT, it can only be THIS WAY. For my spiritual progress to be real, I MUST HAVE THIS KUNDALINI THINGAMAJICKAMER-THINGY happening to me. If I don't get it, I am not as cool as the other kids."

 

Once you understand that all phenomena are empty in the Buddhist sense of the word "empty", then all desire for energy-like feelings goes out the window. I still have desires, but they are simpler and more direct. I don't want an intermediary phenomena, and if I do want it, I will make it myself. I take full responsibility for these mind constructs and the physical world, never mind kundalini, is a mind construct. It's only people who think that some phenomena are truer than others, that some phenomena are emptier than others, it's only those people who are attracted to traditions with rigid, supposedly pre-existent energy structures. If you grok emptiness, you understand the fluidity, the mental-constructedness of everything, so don't construct something that annoys you just to fit in! People.... the sense of belonging might kill you if you want it too much.

Edited May 4, 2009 by goldisheavy

[neidan practitioner]

I was giving this guy 'Awake' the benefit of the doubt, but it has become

clear to me that this guy is just out trolling. If you have any doubts, see the

latest thread he started today titled "please help me very quickly".

 

- np -

[awake]

I was giving this guy 'Awake' the benefit of the doubt, but it has become

clear to me that this guy is just out trolling. If you have any doubts, see the

latest thread he started today titled "please help me very quickly".

 

- np -

 

My words are to the best of my ability to describe what is my real situation. Again I thank you for your doubt, and your help until now, but like I replied to your similarly accusitory and derogatory post in my other thread, I have many better things to do with my time than pretend spiritual progress.

 

I think you mistake my lack of experience, for trickery. I sincerely apologize that I am not wise enough to meet your standards, however, when physical experience turns physically painful, I think we naturally seek relief, as has been pointed out to me by the replies in the thread you are referring to here.

 

If you have some sort of wisdom for healing that is "beyond" getting results, or would like to clarify just why you think I am a fraudulent case, I would appreciate you clarifying.

 

Regardless, I thank you for your advice so far.

[april]

Edited May 6, 2009 by april

[goldisheavy]

I have to give two thumbs up to walking. I don't know where I would be today if I didn't walk as much as I do. By law we have two 15 min breaks in the state of CA (although it might be federal law too, but I am not a lawyer, so don't ask me). I think originally those were meant to be cigarette breaks. But I take them for walking.

 

That's not to say I worship the law or fear it. What I am saying is... even if you are law-abiding scaredy-cat of a person, a little frightened person (who never speeds on the highway, and pays all your taxes), you still get 2 golden opportunities to walk, right at work, besides lunch. It's definitely true in CA and might be true in your state as well. Of course even if it's not true for your state, you should still walk. If you don't care about your health, no one will... sad, but true. Many people, especially businessmen, will rape your health if it makes them extra 5 cents of profit. So take care of yourself. Walk.

 

Walking is good. It's such a simple, humble activity, with so many benefits and is so underrated. Also, if you wear glasses, take them off while walking. Look at the world with new eyes. Relax and let your vision heal itself. Permit it to heal. It wants to heal if only you permit it. Other problems are often that way too... they want to heal on their own, just get out of the way. Everything is alive.

 

We try to micromanage everything. We push energy here. We take forceful action there. What if the world is alive and knows what it's doing? Wouldn't that make all our actions ornamental, and wouldn't it make all desperate and/or forceful actions the equivalent of rape, at least in some small sense? I don't want to put limits on action and intent, but I'm just asking, are we overdoing it sometimes? Like when we agonize over which path to take, or which job is better, or which girl is the best, or if kundalini if flowing properly or not, etc. The universe knows. Just relax. And act playfully for fun, not so much out of desperation to prolong your life, but to enjoy your life, even if your life is short.

Edited May 5, 2009 by goldisheavy