please help me very quickly

[awake]

http://www.thetaobums.com/Golden-Flower-Me...help-t9879.html

 

As part of that, my upper back is now hurting very badly. It hurts when i am in a car that is accelerating, when I am moving, and just randomly sometimes, around my spine (i don't think directly on the spine) as well as all the area on either side up to my arms. I am going to the doctor tomorrow. Please advise what I can do in the meantime.

Edited May 4, 2009 by awake

[gendao]

Giving into the fear response and tensing up is natural...but will likely only make things worse.

 

Try to relax through the block. That alone may not fix it, but it at least may not exacerbate it. Then find a qualified energetic healer and get some help. It may not hurt to see an MD, but they probably won't know what to make of energetic problems...

 

Maybe also move this to the Healing Circle.

[awake]

i was in too much pain before to fully explain the situation.

 

what do you mean, tensing up?

 

It is a physical sensation of soreness, hurtness, so much so it is hard to even get in and out of bed (when i twist, or am about to lay down, i can feel pain in a cylinder around where my spine should be) Otherwise it is mostly constant soreness in my shoulder blade areas, indeed in the upper 1/4 of my back.

 

For those who do not want to go through the entire thread there, you do not need to, here is the jist of it:

 

I felt "kundalini" or "Du Mai" or "Root Chakra" (i don't know which, all different names, the feeling is at the bottom of the spine) energy, that has been at various places up and down my spine for the past few days. It was not able to go past 3/4 up my spine, and the last 1/4 (where it did not reach) is now sore. Some members say that it is a block I have incurred. This hurts a lot and I am unsure if this is past energy built up that is now expressing itself (like yesterday I had some powerful sadness come up during meditation), or if this is a direct negative effect of the opening energy telling me I should stop.

 

When I was high, I did some energy manipulation around this area. It was not that great energy, though, I think this may also be a potential cause.

 

Thats all I can think of for now.

 

Thanks fr any light you could shed, and I would appreciate if this could stay in general, as it will undoubtedly receive the most views here, and is a matter, I think, of utmost importance. (if you could feel my pain)

Edited May 5, 2009 by awake

[Aetherous]

It's nearly impossible to diagnose what's going on from someone's description over the internet. You need to go see someone in your area.

[goldisheavy]

I've already explained my thoughts on this issue in another thread. I just hope you've read it, but other than that, I have nothing else to add except: hang in there... it will pass (everything passes) and while it's passing, just relax.

 

Slightly longer version of "relax, it will pass":

 

It's hard to relax though when there is pain. That's because you're thinking there is a possibility of damage to your quality of life or a possibility to a premature end of your life. This kind of consideration puts one in a state of panic. So in order to relax in times like these you have to be a little insane (or a lot insane). You have to go beyond the instinct of self-preservation. This does not mean you should harbor any kind of aggressive or violent thought toward yourself. Think kindly of yourself. At the same time, as you think kindly of yourself and your body, do not hold onto it. Let it be how it is, even if that means you have to die or become a cripple. Do you see what I mean? I don't mean you should think, "I will become a cripple and it's OK if I do." I don't mean that. I mean, in order to heal yourself you have to disentangle yourself from your idea of who you are and what it means to be happy and healthy. Unless this is done, you're just barely coping with your condition, and have no energy to heal it, since your condition, when one is entangled in it, is very very burdensome and it is all the person can do is to struggle for the next breath, and never mind healing oneself!

 

So, to summarize: suffuse yourself with kindness and keep your mind open. Don't wait for an end. Don't try to hope for anything. Things will change anyway, even if you don't hope. But hoping just makes waiting more painful. This "not hoping" is not the same as being negative or hopeless. It just means you have faith you'll get better, but you don't agonize over when and how and you don't try to hurry up the time, so to speak. Try to realize insight from your condition. Don't let it go to waste. There is wisdom in all situations.

[Mak_Tin_Si]

When did you have this problem and is it hurting all the time?

[Aasin]

Abandon this method of meditation and consult an MD immediately. This isn't something to joke around for and honestly a forum is not a place to go for consultation on important medical issues.

[gendao]

i was in too much pain before to fully explain the situation.

 

what do you mean, tensing up?

 

I felt "kundalini" or "Du Mai" or "Root Chakra" (i don't know which, all different names, the feeling is at the bottom of the spine) energy, that has been at various places up and down my spine for the past few days. It was not able to go past 3/4 up my spine, and the last 1/4 (where it did not reach) is now sore. Some members say that it is a block I have incurred. This hurts a lot and I am unsure if this is past energy built up that is now expressing itself (like yesterday I had some powerful sadness come up during meditation), or if this is a direct negative effect of the opening energy telling me I should stop.

Tensing up physically, mentally, emotionally, energetically...

 

When a health issue crosses the boundary from "casual" to "uhh...WTF?!" - it is natural to start panicking and extrapolating all the worst-case scenarios. But fear constricts possibilities to a dark tunnel, like it does our meridians, exacerbating the blockages. And no matter how bad the situation really is or isn't, adding fear on top sure never helps.

 

Anyhow, it sounds like what's happened is that you turned on the faucet before the hose was cleared. As a result, the water pressure is doing all the heavy clearing, which can be a rough ride. This is a common symptom of ascension processes, and maybe almost unavoidable. Here's an interesting talk on the "Dark Night of the Soul" and "kundalini syndrome," btw...

 

So again, I would suggest 2 things:

1) Find some good healing to directly fix the problem. I firmly believe that knowing good healers and also self-healing is an indispensible asset in ascension work. Because chances are, you may likely need them at some point.

2) In the meantime, try to relax and ride it out as calmly as possible, to avoid exacerbating the situation. Remain the eye in the storm.

3) If all else fails, cry out in sincere desperation to God. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[neidan practitioner]

 

...

 

Thanks fr any light you could shed, and I would appreciate if this could stay in general, as it will undoubtedly receive the most views here, and is a matter, I think, of utmost importance. (if you could feel my pain)

 

Ok, awake, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before, but now I am convinced

that you are just trying to yank people's chains. I guess maybe you are bored.

 

np, out.

[awake]

When did you have this problem and is it hurting all the time?

 

It started yesterday evening after I awoke from a nap after visiting the meditation center for 5 and a half hours during a service.

 

It seems to hurt more when I concentrate on it, earlier today, and just at this moment my arms are beginning to ache too.

 

Ok, awake, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before, but now I am convinced

that you are just trying to yank people's chains. I guess maybe you are bored.

 

np, out.

 

Thanks for your doubt, but I am not. I have much better things to do than sit here poking at your compassion switch for my own shits and giggles, man. I wonder why you say this.

 

Also thanks to everyone else who has helped so far. I will indeed seek medical opinion, and try your recommendations (as well as any other I may receive)

Edited May 5, 2009 by awake

[WhiteTiger]

did you post anything in the healing circle if not for a quick little help before you see an actual Acupuncturist/healer and/or medical MD.

Edited May 5, 2009 by WhiteTiger

[hagar]

http://www.thetaobums.com/Golden-Flower-Me...help-t9879.html

 

As part of that, my upper back is now hurting very badly. It hurts when i am in a car that is accelerating, when I am moving, and just randomly sometimes, around my spine (i don't think directly on the spine) as well as all the area on either side up to my arms. I am going to the doctor tomorrow. Please advise what I can do in the meantime.

 

Awake.

 

I started my practice with a spinal injury. This means that as long as I remember, I have been dealing with pain and soreness in my back, hips and shoulders as a consequence of my sitting, and standing practice.

 

First of all, forget all sense of urgency. The effects you are experiencing has nothing to do with NeiDan or this particular meditation. It is a sign that things are starting to actualize.

 

The problem you think you are facing is the perception of the pain as a problem. Forget about trying to "solve" or "dissolve" any pain. Pain and blockages are more the rule than the exception when you sit. Especially when you are young, as all blockages tend to be felt more acutely.

 

Suffer with grace. This means that how you relate to your pain is much more important than why the pain is there. Try to relate to it with ease, lightness, gracefully. Sit in total honesty facing the pain, yet lightly, carefully, and with compassion. You are infinately more than your pain or problem. Deal with it from that perspective. Just view it as anything else you would outside your body, like noise from traffic, or someone talking. It is not you, it is not a problem, it just hurts, and it will pass.

 

The biggest mistake would be to fight it, or try to force it to go away. There is really nothing you can do wrong. No injury you can do to yourself.

 

On the other hand. If you start to have an agenda with your practice, all sorts of problems will come up.

 

h

[goldisheavy]

Suffer with grace. This means that how you relate to your pain is much more important than why the pain is there. Try to relate to it with ease, lightness, gracefully. Sit in total honesty facing the pain, yet lightly, carefully, and with compassion. You are infinately more than your pain or problem. Deal with it from that perspective. Just view it as anything else you would outside your body, like noise from traffic, or someone talking. It is not you, it is not a problem, it just hurts, and it will pass.

 

Hear, hear.

 

The biggest mistake would be to fight it, or try to force it to go away. There is really nothing you can do wrong. No injury you can do to yourself.

 

That's the ultimate truth, but for this to be realized at a relative level, you have to have a very flexible self-identity. If you have rigid ideas about what you are, who you are, what it means to be you in the world, what it means to be you among others, etc.... then there will be the possibility of hurting oneself and causing oneself pain and doing "wrong" to oneself. It's not that it's totally wrong, but firm adherence to convention sets up (necessary but insufficient) conditions for inner conflicts, which are felt as pain.

 

So depending on his stage of spiritual evolution, he may not be able to swallow that bit of advice, at least, not honestly, not where he'd actually benefit from it right away. But still, what you say is true, it's valuable, and it's good to hear anyway.

[awake]

Thank you all again so far. I am trying, but it is indeed hard, when you are in pain even from standing.

 

Like my progression of noticing stillness and attachment with thoughts, I am noticing progress in relaxing even through this pain.

 

I am going to the doctor tomorrow to diagnose what could be wrong.

 

My father has also made an appointment with a chiropractor, but I am hesitant about this. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on this issue. I can barely get in and out of bed, moving in such ways hurts so much.

[goldisheavy]

Thank you all again so far. I am trying, but it is indeed hard, when you are in pain even from standing.

 

Like my progression of noticing stillness and attachment with thoughts, I am noticing progress in relaxing even through this pain.

 

I am going to the doctor tomorrow to diagnose what could be wrong.

 

My father has also made an appointment with a chiropractor, but I am hesitant about this. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on this issue. I can barely get in and out of bed, moving in such ways hurts so much.

 

Well... how about *big hugs* to you crazy explorer? It's hard... IT'S FUCKING HARD, but... BUT! You are the MAN. Seriously. If anyone can do it, you can.

 

I can tell you a little story. I hope it makes you feel better. May you get better very soon.

 

One time I was fooling around in the shower. I was playing with my lungs. What I did was I stopped my breath, and I was bending my body left and right and I was noticing how my lungs were "breathing themselves", or in other words, I felt there was an air flow from one lung into another, without the air flow at my mouth. So I was really amusing myself in this way, just flailing my body around and then SHAZAAAAAMMMMM!!!!! I felt like I was hit with a sledgehammer in the back. I dropped to the floor of the shower. I couldn't breathe out. I couldn't breathe in. I didn't think this level of pain was possible, but here it was. I couldn't bend down. I couldn't stand up. I couldn't move. I had to move. IT WAS FUCKING HELL.

 

Yea... I fucked up my back. But that's not all. I didn't want my parents to know this! I was ashamed of myself. I thought that was a really stupid way to screw up my back and my parents would kill me if they found out. Sure, they'd help me too, but they'd give me endless lectures and shamings and whatnot, and all kinds of bullshit that I know I cannot endure. So not only was I in such pain that I couldn't sleep! I had to keep this shit hidden from my parents too! I had my hands full.

 

I couldn't even bend my neck! Every time I would bend my neck even 1 degree, my spine would KILL ME. Oh, it was hell.

 

Somehow I decided that I need to heal myself, pronto. So here's what I did. I went outside and suspended myself from my hands on a child's swing frame (it was shaped like this: /\ ) and I hung there, grasping the frame with my hands. I relaxed my back. I felt the spine bones becoming loose. Then I vigorously, maybe even somewhat violently twisted my legs left and right. My thinking was, whatever was in the wrong position had to have been put in the right position. AND??? I WAS IN PAIN... AAAAAA... But, I decided I healed myself. I decided that now this pain was no longer the original pain. It was the residual pain. Just like that. Call it faith. Call it stupidity. Call it what you want. But I felt deep inside I had the right to do this and that it would work for me. Second thing I did, was that I started jogging every day. Why? I decided that the Mother Earth would send healing vibrations through my feet up my spine and heal me. Why did I decide this and how? Who knows. But it felt right. I just listened to my instinct. So I started jogging every day, religiously. And I seriously started to feel better day by day. In about 2-3 weeks my spine was very well!

 

So right now I can move my neck in every which way. I can bend backwards and gracefully put my hands on the floor with my feet still on the floor. I have zero back pain and have had zero back pain ever since that one time.

 

Well, that's my story. I didn't go to the doctors and my parents still don't know this happened to me and I lived and interacted with them every day of this problem too. So not only did I heal it, or lived through the healing of it, but I hid it too or lived through the hiding of it, even if I couldn't fall asleep from pain or move my neck, somehow I managed all that.

Edited May 6, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Aasin]

What everyone says is all well and true but know what your body needs and can or can't take. If you're in pain, your body is saying that something is wrong. No form of meditation will ever be able to deny what your body needs. Respect it's wishes and take care of yourself properly.

[hagar]

Thank you all again so far. I am trying, but it is indeed hard, when you are in pain even from standing.

 

Like my progression of noticing stillness and attachment with thoughts, I am noticing progress in relaxing even through this pain.

 

I am going to the doctor tomorrow to diagnose what could be wrong.

 

My father has also made an appointment with a chiropractor, but I am hesitant about this. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on this issue. I can barely get in and out of bed, moving in such ways hurts so much.

 

Going to the doctor is a sensible thing to do, just to be sure. Especially since the pain is there when you are not practicing also.

Sometimes what you experience may have nothing to do with you practice.

I reread your post, and you wrote about intentionally directing chi in the spine while high.

This may lead you into trouble. If the problem persists, go see a TCM doctor. I also second most other advice here regarding that.

 

Lastly, sometimes old patterns and problems may come back as we progess in practice. Like an old tape that is played for the last time. At these times it feels like we are backsliding, yet we are really just letting it go.

 

h

[erdweir]

Hey awake, I had a similar problem.

 

I got this doing the Microcosmic orbit meditation from Mantak Chia's books. I got a raging stream on energy shooting up my spine than ran into a block in my upper back. I could feel these undulating snakes pressing on the block with their pointed heads, hunting around for some was to get past it. I decided to try and push past it which was a bad idea. it just made it worse. I ended up driving myself crazy and started biting myself on my arms rather fiendishly for an hour or so. I eventually had to call someone to help talk me down from my panic.

 

I tried to find a teacher to help me but didnt have any luck. I ended up just slowly working through the block a little at a time, just a trickle at first, then more and more. My back was sore all the time like yours. eventually all the vertebrae in my upper back cracked and the energy streamed up to my head and i felt relief for the first time in a month.

 

Later i found out about other exercises which loosen up the back, like "spinal cord breathing" and also learned from the experience how important it is to keep your back very straight and upright while doing these kinds of meditations. My advice to you is get a teacher to help you, and do something for your back, like hang from a door or swing set or something, or take some yoga or tai chi if you can. they will both help align you back. a chiropractor will be able to align you back but you will keep having to go back to them. I would go do it now far a quick fix if you are in allot of pain but learn how to do it yourself for the long haul. A regular MD is not likely to understand what you are going through, but you never know. Getting checked up cant hurt.

 

You can put your back against the wall when you meditate if you need help keeping it straight, and do the meditation gently and dont push. I got the energy to pass through my block by trying to concentrate on a spot above the block instead of pushing up against it. I would stop doing it for now though, or just concentrate on reversing the flow back to the source at the base of the spine.

 

remember to keep calm, this kind of thing is dangerous and really uncomfortable but it can be managed. if you can find a chi kung teacher in your area they might be able to help you more than a doctor but not all teachers are that good, it can be hard to find a good one. Sounds like you got more than you bargained for! so did I and many others here. but you can get through it.

Edited May 6, 2009 by erdweir

[neidan practitioner]

Thank you all again so far. I am trying, but it is indeed hard, when you are in pain even from standing.

 

Like my progression of noticing stillness and attachment with thoughts, I am noticing progress in relaxing even through this pain.

 

I am going to the doctor tomorrow to diagnose what could be wrong.

 

My father has also made an appointment with a chiropractor, but I am hesitant about this. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on this issue. I can barely get in and out of bed, moving in such ways hurts so much.

 

 

Ok, Awake. I just couldn't see how someone could be in such a state of panic about just

getting a sore back, especially when it had already been explained to you some things

you could do to help alleviate any bad effects you might be having. For example, trying not

to focus too much on any problematic things, going for long walks, keeping yourself calm

as best you can, etc. I also couldn't see how if you were really having a problem that

was making you panic this much, that you would still be calmly making posts in other

threads here at the same time you were posting panic posts here. It doesn't seem to add up,

that someone would be so panicked even after people had already explained that if you

do your best to stay calm and don't focus on it too much, and do things like taking long walks,

ill effects will start to dissipate. On the other hand, if you had been doing some stretching exercises

or other physical activity that you don't normally do, then it might be that you just stressed

something in your back and that might indicate just a physical problem. However, you also mentioned

no specific details at all in this thread really about whether that was the case or not, so how would you expect

people would be able to assess what you might be experiencing? It doesn't sound like what

a person would do if they were sincerely looking for assistance. If you get this freaked out

when you feel any unusual sensations or ill effects that might be from meditation, why are you doing

meditation?

 

To put this more in perspective for you. When I was younger I had some spontaneous

occurences of this sort happen to me, even though I wasn't practicing any meditation

or yoga or anything like that, not did I know anything about chi kung, meditation, or

yoga and such at the time. So, for me, I had no framework at all to try to sort

out what I might be experiencing. At any rate, I did go for a 2 or three week period where

besides the strong energetic type of feelings (sometimes intense) that I was experiencing, I

also was getting bad headaches and a stiff neck, and it felt like my sinuses were full

of pressure, although I didn't have a cold or flu or a runny nose and such. I was taking

that nasal spray stuff and it wasn't helping at all. Still, I wasn't at all panicked or overly

concerned because I kind of gathered, based on the strong energetic things that were

going on as well that there was something unusual going on, and I kind of suspected

it might be a 'yoga thing' or something along those lines, so I started doing some research

at the library and reading various books on the subject. After about 2 or 3 weeks, the

strong pressure in my sinuses and the headaches passed, but I was doing lots of walking

which probably helped as well. I have had other ill effects somtimes as well, but for me

all passed in due time. Trying not to focus too much on any problems that arise, and taking

long walks may help you out here as well.

 

If I had woken up with pain in my back, I might be concerned as well, but I no doubt

would have just observed over several days to try to determine if the problem was just

an effect of meditation, or an actual physical problem of some sort, and to see if the

problem started to ease on its own. It doesn't hurt to go see a doctor of course, but

you may end up having to go for a bunch of x-rays and not fun tests of various types

if the doctors don't see a physical problem when they examone you. On the other

hand, if you just did something that stressed out your back, the doctor or chiropractor

may be able to give some relief. Without you having provided more details here, it's

really hard to say. At any rate, going to a doctor sounds like a good thing in your situation

if you are sincerely worried about this. If the doctors don't find any physical problems,

and you can manage it, maybe try going for long walks and doing some gentle upper

body rotation exercises, if it doesn't hurt too much, to see if that helps with your situation at all.

Also, try not to focus on any problems too much. If it is due to whatever meditation and other stuff

you were doing, it is best not to focus on any problems areas to much, so as not to aggravate

any problems.

 

Also, if the problem you reported is due to a bit of energy build up in the spine, this is

not a 'blockage' in the sense of a 'problem' area, but is something that one might experience

when energy is forced or directed into the spine with intention, instead of allowing things to

progress and 'open' naturally, as I described in the other thread. This is the types of ill effects

that may occur that I was alluding to when I said it is not a good idea to use intention

to try to lead or direct energy (at least at beginning stages). At any rate, if this is due to

this, and not a physical problem with your back, it should pass after a while, if yo don't

keep focusing on it too much.

 

- np -

Edited May 6, 2009 by neidan practitioner

[Mak_Tin_Si]

it all started after a nap just after you came back from your meditation center practise or service? what did you do there? meditation or do some kind of stuff?

 

if so, you might caught something called yin-illness, which is ach caused by yin-energy or spiritual stuff.

 

do you feel any chill / cold or freezing feelings? or got fever? or emotional?

Edited May 6, 2009 by Mak_Tin_Si

[awake]

it all started after a nap just after you came back from your meditation center practise or service? what did you do there? meditation or do some kind of stuff?

 

if so, you might caught something called yin-illness, which is ach caused by yin-energy or spiritual stuff.

 

do you feel any chill / cold or freezing feelings? or got fever? or emotional?

 

I just did meditation while the monks were teaching youths, sitting there focusing on my breath with eyes closed. Sometimes I stopped to listen to what they were saying.

 

No, none of those symptoms, but the pain seems to be making me irrational and easily agitated, especially by my mother, who repeats very useless patterns and does not understand much without it being repeatedly explained to her.

 

Yesterday I focussed on the energy I felt after being sick in the past and knowing I had to go back to school (and I was always sick on the weekends, and healthy for monday, so that energy is fairly well established). Today I awoke and was able to get in and out of bed without too much difficulty, just minor pain, so it seems to be subsiding.

 

@neidan practitioner: The mind works in mysterious ways, I believe mine is still content based (attached), and I still have to take the exercise suggested to me to make clear my intentions about meditation.

[april]

Edited May 7, 2009 by april