Who is trained in Micro Cosmic Orbit?

[Spirit Ape]

Anyone here devoted to MCO?

 

If so what is your practice like and what has cultivated or what experiences have you had from it?

 

Do you know of any proper MCO apart from Mantak Chia ive heard some bad stuff from his MCO any comments?

 

Ape

[ryansmith]

KAP uses MCO....Santiago posted a secret smile version which incorporates the MCO. I have taken the course and can vouch for it (the course as well as MCO's) effectiveness.

[WhiteTiger]

I will personally not speak about other teachers and there teachings if I have not personally been taught extensively under them. (Which probably means I shouldn't talk about any teacher, and how effective there methods are)

 

Well if your interested in understanding what Mantak Chia teaches go learn from him. Only experience will tell you.

 

I would suggest to also look into other explainations and talks about such things. I think its a pretty comprehensive indepth subject that requires a very deep look. But if sincerely interested I really would recommend taking the time to study it. (no matter how deep you actually study the subject)

 

Many more people than just him teach it. Its really not too hard to find other stuff meterial on such stuff. Although I will admit for most people (includes me) they don't really know where to start. I wouldn't nessesarily suggest taking the easiest route and looking for guidance.

[Spirit Ape]

Thanks, Im not after a teacher just information and seeing what people have got from it. Do you know of any good books on the subject?

 

Ape

[Fire Dragon]

Thanks, Im not after a teacher just information and seeing what people have got from it. Do you know of any good books on the subject?

 

Ape

 

 

 

Mantak Chia's "Awaken healing light of the tao" and "Awaken healing energy through the tao"

 

The first one "healing light" above is a masterpiece.

 

F D

[idquest]

You can add Chunyu Li (spelling?) from Spring Forest Qigong and Shouyu Liang (Qigong Empowerment) who start the cultivation with MCO. Methods of activation of MCO can be different which makes the practices different.

 

I have another question though. The main stuff (kundalini / kan&li) happens in the central channel. So why do we need MCO in the first place?

[三江源]

My experience is that the MCO is the first channel that opens.

 

It is the beginning.

 

Does anyone have other channels flowing and not the MCO?

[erdweir]

I have been orbiting for about a year. I learned from Chia's books. There are other names for it, like the small heavenly cycle, which just sounds like an alternate translation of the same thing. Anybody know the Chinese?

 

Charles Luk's book places allot of importance in it, as does Yang Jwing Mings Books. It's very widespread in all of the Chinese Neidan practices as far as i know. I Read somewhere in an article about western internal alchemy (yes, it does exist) that in Europe it was known as the golden ring.

 

What i noticed about it was that I had too much energy stuck in my head, and was too one sidedly intellectual and rational, much like western society in general. when i started doing this, allot of my internal conflicts quieted, and I got allot better at seeing through other people's emotional disturbances instead of being confused and offended by them. I got allot better at dealing with my own too.

 

One time when I did the orbit for two hours i ended up with some kind of heightened awareness where i could see people's emotional problems and body problems as one thing, and it was really disturbing. I was out on the street in san francisco and i felt like i was surrounded by madmen. maybe part of it was my own distorted perspective but i dont think so. it felt too real. Kind of like being on acid but without the confusion or side effects.

 

I have orbited so fast that i can hear a sound in my head like a helicopter blade. I have had various snakes and worms crawl up my back, etc.

 

I think if you try to go straight for the real serious Kan and Li stuff without doing all of the preliminaries like the MO, you could be in for a real nightmare, the proverbial "Dark Night of the Soul". Allot of the Taoist techniques are there to spare you this, and other things like the kind of Kundalini torture Gopi Krisha describes. work form a solid foundation.

[idquest]

I've read that there is such a phenomenae as 'false circulation' referring to not fully / improperly / imaginary opening of MCO.

 

Can anybody say what would be some signs to distinguish between false and true circulation?

[Spirit Ape]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I was also taught that once the Dan Tian is full the orbit will move by itself and no need for imagining or intent to move it, i was told that you shouldnt use any intent for it just let it run naturally or it will happen naturally once the Dan Tian is full.

 

Comments?

 

Ape

[Inedible]

In the beginning, you use effort to get the orbit to run - but at some point it takes on a life of its own. At that point, you should switch to following it as it runs on its own instead of using effort. If you continue to use effort at that point, especially if you decide that it isn't going the way the book says, so you are going to make it go the other way, you might get into a bit of trouble. When you have things happening spontaneously that is really good, but until then you can use effort to get the process started.

[Mal]

[Trunk]

If you haven't already, I suggest that you read the orbit section of alchemicaltaoism.com. Various helpful there.

 

Lots of things could be said. Just to mention two things in short:

- Do some physical work on the orbit. Moving qi gong. Orbit acupressure massage.

 

- The other channels are important, also, and sometimes get ignored because the orbit gets so much press.

[Spirit Ape]

Trunk,

 

Nice site and thanks for the link, what do you think twindling does for you, I did it and felt heat coming through my hands and like hot air going around them wrapping it up in cotton (way kool).

 

Ape

[erdweir]

there are various ways to get the orbit going, i dont think any particular one is correct.

 

Mantak Chia seems to be in the minority as far as synchronizing the breath goes, he says it is not important, where as most writers who use the method of directing the chi by intention stress this.

 

Filling up the Dantien is another method, this is a little less intention based, but still uses the mind to fill the Dantien but not start the orbit.

 

I have read that Internal Martial arts like Tai Chi and Bagua will open up your orbit as a by product of their movements, maybe moving QiGong forms work this way as well. This is the least intention based, the chi is supposed to start moving on its own after doing the movements for a while.

 

Most of the internal alchemy people seem to use the intention based method but not all of them. There are probably more methods than just these three, and various combinations and hybrid methods.

Edited May 11, 2009 by erdweir

[三江源]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I was also taught that once the Dan Tian is full the orbit will move by itself and no need for imagining or intent to move it, i was told that you shouldnt use any intent for it just let it run naturally or it will happen naturally once the Dan Tian is full.

 

Comments?

 

Ape

 

 

This is my experience. I explained to my teacher that I had a burning spine and he told me to cock my head to each side during spontaneous, to faciliate the movement through the neck. Once I did that, it was able to shift through that area and began to flow down the front and that was it.

[Ian]

My experience is that the MCO is the first channel that opens.

 

It is the beginning.

 

Does anyone have other channels flowing and not the MCO?

 

Way back in the past, when stones had legs, I had a session of private tuition with Rene Navarro. I kind of wanted to know about progression in Healing Tao stuff, where, if anywhere, I was, what I should be doing next.

 

So he told me all about the principle of Taoist return, of things getting gradually simpler. And the orbit was actually the last thing, representing the final blend of yin and yang, to happen after you got all your five elements harmonised and all that.

 

Naturally enough, I asked why the bloody hell, that being the case, it was taught at the very beginning.

 

And he kind of said because it was just handy and connected things. I paraphrase, obviously, long time ago.

 

So it may well be that what we think of as the orbit, if we're talking about having a bit of a nice ongoing flow, may be but a pale ghost of what other people mean by it.

 

But hey, I really haven't a clue.

[Trunk]

what do you think twindling does for you, I did it and felt heat coming through my hands and like hot air going around them wrapping it up in cotton (way kool).

Twiddling on an acupoint until it pulses activates the acupoint. It prompts the pumping of blood and qi at the acupoint, and as a result the acupoint does whatever that acupoint does, with the energies that you have at the time. Might/might not be accompanied by qi sensations in the hands.

 

not so fast!: l-a-z-y pace

 

 

So it may well be that what we think of as the orbit, if we're talking about having a bit of a nice ongoing flow, may be but a pale ghost of what other people mean by it.

The Dragon Gate blog posts on the "small heavenly orbit" (SHO) indicate that.

[三江源]

Ian, yes.. I get it: this is why the MO orbit opens naturally when the dt is 'full'... very taoist. It is the last thing and the first thing.

 

it is the last thing of the first section and the first thing of a next round.

 

so everything opens and fills and then the MO makes itself felt. after that one can feel everything opening and filling.

 

as for the extent of what one feels or could feel... maybe that is at least partly down to how kinaesthetically aware a person is.

 

ha.. looking at trunk's dragon gate link. I was breastfeeding when my MCO opened! And then of course, I started to fall in love with trees... it's all there in the link..

Edited May 11, 2009 by cat

[sheng zhen]

The Dragon Gate blog posts on the "small heavenly orbit" (SHO) indicate that.

Also Dao Zhen mentiones the False Water Wheel in this post: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=102985

 

I wonder how many methods here in the west(or the east!) who will be categorized as False Water Wheel methods...

Edited May 11, 2009 by sheng zhen

[erdweir]

he said... the orbit was actually the last thing, representing the final blend of yin and yang, to happen after you got all your five elements harmonised and all that.

 

Naturally enough, I asked why the bloody hell, that being the case, it was taught at the very beginning.

 

And he kind of said because it was just handy and connected things. I paraphrase, obviously, long time ago.

 

So it may well be that what we think of as the orbit, if we're talking about having a bit of a nice ongoing flow, may be but a pale ghost of what other people mean by it.

 

I like the sound of this.

 

When I first tried to do it all i got was this cold little stream that looked like mercury to me. I didn't think anything was happening so i put it aside.

 

later, when i had a better (but still not quite right) idea of how to proceed, I spent weeks warming up chi in the navel before i tried to move it. It was hot and intense enough to hurt a little. when you get it that present it doesn't weaken when your attention wavers. moving chi this strong isnt easy when you are going through a channel that is used to just a cold trickle. I should have worked up to it gradually instead of going in all gung ho all at once. It gave me a big scare when I got to this block in my spine, which i could have avoided, but I just didnt realize it at the time.

 

now that i am doing the five element fusions, i am getting these weird red segmented worms bubbling up my spine once in a while. dont know what to think about that yet, but it just seems to be another layer.

 

 

a few times, just a few, i did it strong enough and long enough to change my consciousness. I am still not sure exactly how i did it, but i feel like even this was just a pale foreshadowing of what is to come. It probably gets very intense.

Edited May 12, 2009 by erdweir

[Mokona]

Excuse me for posting offtopic, but how did you heat up the chi to start with?

[erdweir]

Excuse me for posting offtopic, but how did you heat up the chi to start with?

It's not off topic, its part of doing the MO.. no excuse needed

 

I just followed the instructions in Mantak Chia's Awaken the Healing Energy of the Tao, which just says to focus your attention of you navel. Navel gazing indeed! He recommends 15 minutes of this twice a day. after a few days, I could feel some warmth, after a week it was very intense. after two weeks it started to have a life of it's own. How long it takes and how intense it gets is supposed to vary in the person. Check out the book for complete instructions, also his other book Awaken the Healing Energy of the Tao has more instructions and complementary practices I wish I had known about in the beginning.. like the spinal breathing which he puts in the index, which should really be in the beginning, as it helps loosen up blockages in the spine. I had major blockages and charging right in didn't end up being that pleasant for me. running strong chi up against a major blockage is pretty nasty.

[Trunk]

It's the sorts of difficulties that erdweir is mentioning that begs the solution of harmonizing the energy in the lower jiao before raising it. Usually this is done by opening the front channel first and bringing higher energies down into the lower -> as a result the lower fills and harmonizes, then rises in a kind way.

 

~ later edit ~

And the difficulties mentioned are just the beginning with that approach. If you start from the lower and just rise, usually the lower never gets around to being harmonized. Over time this leads to stubborn bound-up tension in the lower jiao, difficult to resolve and a source of all kinds of trouble.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Trunk

[erdweir]

It's the sorts of difficulties that erdweir is mentioning that begs the solution of harmonizing the energy in the lower jiao before raising it. Usually this is done by opening the front channel first and bringing higher energies down into the lower -> as a result the lower fills and harmonizes, then rises in a kind way.

 

~ later edit ~

And the difficulties mentioned are just the beginning with that approach. If you start from the lower and just rise, usually the lower never gets around to being harmonized. Over time this leads to stubborn bound-up tension in the lower jiao, difficult to resolve and a source of all kinds of trouble.

 

excuse me for being a total bonehead, but what is the Lower Jiao? And could you elaborate on the harmonizing you are talking about.

 

I just noticed you are the guy who has the AlcTao website. Good site! Thanks for putting it out there. I Agree with your opinion that the Healing Tao is missing a few things. Especially some stillness meditation and stretching. I have been thinking recently that you should do that first, before the MO. Would you agree?

Edited May 12, 2009 by erdweir