Sadness, and Fear of Death Coming Up During Meditation?

[awake]

So I've been trying to clear my mind of the "unnecessary chatter" for a while now, and more recently I got into GFM, as some of you will definitely remember from my recent threads.

 

I'd like to post this update on my practices and see your feedback on what I'm experiencing.

 

My current progres with the "mental noise" is I'm further and further overcoming it and removing my attachment from it.

 

I notice I am feeling more, all the time. A lot of it is emotions. When thoughts come up, I can often sense their underling emotional vibration (or I am making one up for them that is not their true one) and notice the sadness or feelings of humiliation, or fear, behind most of my thoughts. The happy ones I notice empty happiness in them, and so predominantly, the feelings that come with my thoughts are negative. When I feel these feelings, I "hold onto them," and try to feel them out. I fear this may be partly my desire to feel anything, and my true fear in regards to this is that "holding onto" the feelings in the immediate time after they arise and "feeling through" them may be causing me more harm than if I simply let them pass. - I would especially like to hear feedback on this matter.

 

Sometimes, I feel things seemingly without thoughts immediately provoking them. There are some okay sensations, like feeling some tingling and like I'm feeling the inside of, but only the outer bit of, my legs, arms. (like as if my arms/legs were cylindrical oranges, and I could feel only the skin) Sometimes in those respects I don't know what it is I'm feeling (skin, or depth, or what have you), it just seems to be a general feeling in that area, like right now as I write this in my calves.

 

Then, there are the feelings that are more emotional. Current ones I am facing (not at this moment, but in the very recent past they have been very active) is a fear of death, fear of being hurt, and sadness.

 

I notice myself letting out a little smile whenever I see people, though it is not for all people. It is mainly when I see males, and that has created a conscious fear as to my potential sexuality, as I am a virgin, however I think I am attracted to women (7 years of masturbating to them was my first sign, though I have given up that act and am doing my best to continue as such), but I hope it is simply my supressed feelings of perhaps fear of them, that is causing me to mostly only smile at men my age.

 

In regards to the GFM meditation I recently undertook, compared to JJ Semple's website, I am making quick "progress", having "felt my breath and reversed it" 2 days into it, and felt the feelings in my spine another 2 days after. During my progress those feelings in my spine have not only gone upwards like in JJ's experience, but also downwards, fluctuating at different times. Sometimes I did not feel them at all, my guess is I was too caught up in mindstuffs. To which I previously referred to, at one point, the feelings stopped 3/4 of the way up my spine and my upper 1/4 of my back got very sore, and so I made a topic here in regards to that matter. The feelings have since been able to go up past that area (in fact only today) and I now feel it just below that part of your skull that jutts out at the back (about eye level).

 

I notice if I simply think of a spot along my spine, the feeling will go there, so it is easily manipulated, but I try my best not to do this, and simply watch where the feeling goes without paying attention to it, rather focussing on my breathing, but it is hard not to pay attention to it. At any point the feeling barely stays in one place, if so, maybe only for a few minutes at most, before disappearing temporarily or moving to another location. I am also "influenced" more often to keep my back straight. It is not only while meditating I feel this, but often during my daily routines. - This is another area I would particularly like to hear feedback on.

 

Thank you for reading, it was good to express these things, and I hope to see some useful and perhaps insightful responses.

[trailmaker]

So I've been trying to clear my mind of the "unnecessary chatter" for a while now, and more recently I got into GFM, as some of you will definitely remember from my recent threads.

 

I'd like to post this update on my practices and see your feedback on what I'm experiencing.

 

My current progres with the "mental noise" is I'm further and further overcoming it and removing my attachment from it.

 

I notice I am feeling more, all the time. A lot of it is emotions. When thoughts come up, I can often sense their underling emotional vibration (or I am making one up for them that is not their true one) and notice the sadness or feelings of humiliation, or fear, behind most of my thoughts. The happy ones I notice empty happiness in them, and so predominantly, the feelings that come with my thoughts are negative. When I feel these feelings, I "hold onto them," and try to feel them out. I fear this may be partly my desire to feel anything, and my true fear in regards to this is that "holding onto" the feelings in the immediate time after they arise and "feeling through" them may be causing me more harm than if I simply let them pass. - I would especially like to hear feedback on this matter.

 

Sometimes, I feel things seemingly without thoughts immediately provoking them. There are some okay sensations, like feeling some tingling and like I'm feeling the inside of, but only the outer bit of, my legs, arms. (like as if my arms/legs were cylindrical oranges, and I could feel only the skin) Sometimes in those respects I don't know what it is I'm feeling (skin, or depth, or what have you), it just seems to be a general feeling in that area, like right now as I write this in my calves.

 

Then, there are the feelings that are more emotional. Current ones I am facing (not at this moment, but in the very recent past they have been very active) is a fear of death, fear of being hurt, and sadness.

 

I notice myself letting out a little smile whenever I see people, though it is not for all people. It is mainly when I see males, and that has created a conscious fear as to my potential sexuality, as I am a virgin, however I think I am attracted to women (7 years of masturbating to them was my first sign, though I have given up that act and am doing my best to continue as such), but I hope it is simply my supressed feelings of perhaps fear of them, that is causing me to mostly only smile at men my age.

 

In regards to the GFM meditation I recently undertook, compared to JJ Semple's website, I am making quick "progress", having "felt my breath and reversed it" 2 days into it, and felt the feelings in my spine another 2 days after. During my progress those feelings in my spine have not only gone upwards like in JJ's experience, but also downwards, fluctuating at different times. Sometimes I did not feel them at all, my guess is I was too caught up in mindstuffs. To which I previously referred to, at one point, the feelings stopped 3/4 of the way up my spine and my upper 1/4 of my back got very sore, and so I made a topic here in regards to that matter. The feelings have since been able to go up past that area (in fact only today) and I now feel it just below that part of your skull that jutts out at the back (about eye level).

 

I notice if I simply think of a spot along my spine, the feeling will go there, so it is easily manipulated, but I try my best not to do this, and simply watch where the feeling goes without paying attention to it, rather focussing on my breathing, but it is hard not to pay attention to it. At any point the feeling barely stays in one place, if so, maybe only for a few minutes at most, before disappearing temporarily or moving to another location. I am also "influenced" more often to keep my back straight. It is not only while meditating I feel this, but often during my daily routines. - This is another area I would particularly like to hear feedback on.

 

Thank you for reading, it was good to express these things, and I hope to see some useful and perhaps insightful responses.

 

 

unnecessary chatter - right - but when it's in your way got to get it out - it's really external.

 

i'm hearing well-collected introspect starting to clear the way to harmony with inner self.

 

keep on expressing.

[goldisheavy]

So I've been trying to clear my mind of the "unnecessary chatter" for a while now, and more recently I got into GFM, as some of you will definitely remember from my recent threads.

 

I'd like to post this update on my practices and see your feedback on what I'm experiencing.

 

My current progres with the "mental noise" is I'm further and further overcoming it and removing my attachment from it.

 

Are you now becoming more attached to the chatter-free state? Is that your new fixation now?

 

Also, if you're so good at clearing the "irrelevant" chatter, why can't you clear the "irrelevant" feelings? Do you seriously believe that chatter comes from you and feelings come from the environment? Is that why?

 

Finally, you refer to chatter as unnecessary. I have to ask, "Unnecessary for what?" What are you trying to achieve? What's your goal? If it's wisdom or immortality, then high quality chatter is quite necessary, in a healthy moderation.

 

It appears to me that what you're tying to do is, instead of understanding and dealing with the full extent of your experience, you're cutting yourself off from it by drawing a boundary between yourself and the world (and other people), and then you're attempting to eliminate the traces of the outside world by controlling the chatter. Let's say you succeed. Then you will probably attempt to control your feelings next. Let's say you succeed again. Then you have succeeded in wiping away the imprint of the world on your mind. Your mind will be motionless, changeless then, dead. Wouldn't that be nice? Then you can finally rest in peace.

 

I think you have some good insights, but you're posting them too soon for feedback. You just scratched the surface and already you want advice? Give it like 3 years, then ask for advice. That's my advice.

 

It's kind of like, I heard about eating, so I pick up a spoon, and before I even fill it up with food, right away I need advice on how to proceed. That's nonsense. How about having a few meals on my own first?

[SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist]

From what you say, it sounds as if you are not practicing correctly, this is not easy to take in sometimes, but there is no other way for me to put it. Focusing on this and that, feeling here and there, spot on the spine, etc. Your mind is from one rest spot to another, this will not yield clarity. Ask yourself this, if your doing everything right then why are you feeling bad ? If you want to feel the underlying vibration to anything at least let it be a positive thought, why cause you'll be happy. Believe me that negative state is not a road you want to go down, I've been there, it acts like an evil magnet that only brings more trouble. Luckily for you the opposite is also true. So you feel you like women so what, no judgment here. If that is what makes you happy then that is what makes you happy, however, from what you said regarding masturbating to women, I have often heard from many girls who I know are not bi sexual or lesbians, that they enjoy watching the girl in a pornographic movie more than the guy. So that is not neccesarily an indication of that. Ask your self this do you ever find a guy to be attractive, do you ever have a sexual urge for any guy ? Is it somewhat repulsive ? If so then maybe your right but if you can think of a guy you may feel that for maybe your just making things out to be something they're not.

 

If you are going to practice meditation you cannot do all sorts of random things, like focus on this and that and sit dwelling in negativity, you will bring forth some very very undesirable mental states, hallucinations, spirits, demons, call them what you will, but they will come and mess with you. Depending on your level of awareness you may not even realize it. In the beggining when I just dove into my training with no guidance, I had all types of weird experiences, I would literally see stuff, in full waking moments, scared the crapped out of me, then it happened so much I was used to it, then it became annoying. I've learned since then that my practice was improper, and have gone through much to correct myself. Believe me do not take this sort of thing lightly, this is no ordinary art your practicing, it calls forth tremendous energy, particularly if your a female, as you have more of a knack for it than males do, your feminine nature allows for this, the fact that you do not need to worry about emmiting sexual essence is another advantage that us guys have to really really struggle with. One ejaculation from a male and we've blown a whole 100 days worth of foundation set up, as a girl you can enjoy sex as freely as you please, you however, will lose your essence during your menstral cycles and bleeding, as well as if you were to have a child. So during your period it is important for you to stay well nourished, and well rested, eat a bit more meat perhaps, as this is your time of energy loss. Most people will not know of the differences between the Tao for a man vs a woman, I've lived with my grilfriend for over 3 years and we practice together, through my research I have discovered these things mainly to help her, there is far less literature about woman of the great way than men, that is the folly of society.

 

I can tell you that conquering fear is something that came early for me, as I studied the ways of War, which lead me to study the Great Way or Tao. In regards to conquering fear of anything, there is truly only one way, to feel, stand against it, and not let it overtake you. After you do this you will realize the truth behind the old saying the only thing to fear is fear itself. My Tai Ji master once reflected this upon me in another way, when one attacks you with a blade or sword etc, this causes fear getting cut, feeling pain bleed to death it is very scary. but whether or not your scared the situation is there, being scared doesn't help you deal with the situation, so why be scared ? In other words it is useless to you, instinctively it was designed as a response for us stay away from things we couldn't defeat, but we have come so far that truly there is very little that we cannot defeat.

 

Overall my advice to you is to simplify everything, just reading what your practicing gives me a headache you know it's just too much all over the place. Just keep it simple go back to something basic like listening to your breath or paying attention to your posture, this should help out, and if your going to focus on any though, let it be a positive one, if you think about negative things all the time no wonder you feel, "Sadness, and Fear of Death Coming Up During Meditation"

Good Luck

[Gerard]

I strongly suggest you to undertake a Samatha (concentration) and Vipassana (awareness) regime.

 

It cleans up everything, peels all the layers of the mind to the origins of your creation as a sentient being and leads to spiritual enlightenment or arahantship.

 

Never give up because the process is not easy.

 

Good luck!

[freeform]

I notice I am feeling more, all the time. A lot of it is emotions. When thoughts come up, I can often sense their underling emotional vibration (or I am making one up for them that is not their true one) and notice the sadness or feelings of humiliation, or fear, behind most of my thoughts. The happy ones I notice empty happiness in them, and so predominantly, the feelings that come with my thoughts are negative. When I feel these feelings, I "hold onto them," and try to feel them out. I fear this may be partly my desire to feel anything, and my true fear in regards to this is that "holding onto" the feelings in the immediate time after they arise and "feeling through" them may be causing me more harm than if I simply let them pass. - I would especially like to hear feedback on this matter.

 

This is only from my experience - and reflects my path and what I have done.

 

I get very bored with the idea that one should only feel 'good' feelings. In my opinion that's just an idea that comes from a western (particularly American) cultural dogma... It's like wanting only daytime - no night-time... The universe is balanced and so are you. You will always have as many good feelings as bad feelings. It's just a case of how your attention and awareness works. A lot of people only allow their awareness to rest on the positive, and avoid the negative like the plague.

 

When one starts a spiritual practice the attention is freed, and a torrent of suppressed 'negative' feelings and thoughts gets released... it's only time before it all evens out - as long as you allow everything that is there to enter your awareness.

 

Each and every feeling has a lesson hidden in it. Rather than attempting to 'hold on' to the feeling, just give it space... give it your undivided attention and the space of your body to express itself fully - ask it what lesson it has for you.

 

GIH has his own opinion - based on his path and his experience - although he likes to pass it off as a universal 'truth'. The idea that silence is dead reflects what I see as his very mental, top-heavy development.

[Sunya]

find a realized teacher to guide you, stop asking advice from people who are still stuck in samsara like yourself

 

I'm far from realized, but I do understand that Shamata (one pointed concentration) practice is crucial for a stable foundation, or else the mind is still wild because of its latent fixation with itself. you chose the breath as your object, stick with it. keep breathing, when emotions come up pay them no heed, keep focusing on the breath. The breath is your refuge.

 

remember: emotions are thoughts too, and thus they are empty.

 

 

 

 

I strongly suggest you to undertake a Samatha (concentration) and Vipassana (awareness) regime.

 

It cleans up everything, peels all the layers of the mind to the origins of your creation as a sentient being and leads to spiritual enlightenment or arahantship.

 

Never give up because the process is not easy.

 

 

Indeed, this is the recommended Buddhist approach, tried and tested, and this explains why Buddhists generally are very stable people. Stable Shamata before Vipassana is the recommended route by Tibetans as well as Daniel Ingram, as well as the typical Zen approach of Zazen prior to Shikantaza.

 

I also had 2 Hindu Shivaite Gurus who gave me shaktipat and they both stressed concentration (on breath or mantra) as the main practice and not to focus on any phenomena or emotional clearing. Working with energy stirs up the deeper levels of consciousness, like taking a stick and stirring up muddy water. Whatever comes up must be let go, if you keep attaching to whatever comes up then you are only continuing the cycle of habituation. Break the pattern; let go.

[松永道]

Awake,

 

What you are experiencing is not rapid progress, it is mental wind. This is why, traditionally, sensations were not described to the student before hand. When undertaking a practice, one learns the outward form (that can include mind form as well as physical form). Practicing the form, many sensations begin to appear. Some are wind, chatter, etc - the body balancing and settling; others are Qi activity that correct practice produces.

 

The student describes his sensations, not knowing the "correct answer", and the teacher gives the next practice once the student begins practicing the correct sensations into being.

 

If the student knows what he should be feeling ahead of time, mental wind can simply create the sensation - a type of consciously or sub-consciously produced hallucination. This is not the correct way.

 

Therefore it is very difficult to properly practice from a book. You need the wisdom to separate real from imaginary, and the ability to know the path without desiring to make progress on it. Very difficult.

 

I would second Dirkhrod's suggestion. It's a good way to clean your slate.

[freeform]

I also agree with Mikaelz that you need to find a teacher. Have the intention in mind and be open to possibility and you will find a teacher I'm sure.

 

Also remember that when people tell you 'the truth' - it is their truth. What Mikaelz tells you is his own truth. Of course if you are practising stilling your mind, don't get swept up by emotion, keep returning to the breath.

 

However - my personal opinion is that emotions are indeed very important - not the story and the drama of them but the internal weather they create. Stuck emotions will be stirred up - especially if you're stilling your mind by focusing on your breath... Whether they are unblocked and transformed through your day-to-day life (coming up as dramatic events that trigger internal patterns to be resolved) or through playful exploration and awareness

[5ENSES]

First of all, AWESOME! Keep it up! Developing awareness! Stick with it!

 

Whether you find a teacher, change techniques, or keep on doing what you're doing, DON"T STOP! It is vital to keep up insight practice during this time, or you can become stranded in the content of the arising emotions. Just like you're doing with the chatter content, you want to move through arising emotion.

 

Regarding arising emotions: while their content is ultimately not going to be very important, it is NOW, right? That emotional stuff, once buried under chatter, is now HERE and RAW. I found it very worthwhile to dive into arising emotions, to experience feeling inseparable from them. When I felt pain, I lay down and fell, through the floor, into pain; let it cover me, saturate me, so that I could not find where I ended and it began. When I felt joy, I stood with my arms up, in the sun, plunged into the joy and, again, became saturated. In doing these immersions, I discovered that being joy is not different from being pain. If I had pushed my emotions away, I might have never discovered that so quickly.

 

From where I sit, I encourage you to remain as steadfast in your awareness as evidenced in your post, while you work through arising emotions!

[Upfromtheashes]

I also agree with Mikaelz that you need to find a teacher. Have the intention in mind and be open to possibility and you will find a teacher I'm sure.

 

Also remember that when people tell you 'the truth' - it is their truth. What Mikaelz tells you is his own truth. Of course if you are practising stilling your mind, don't get swept up by emotion, keep returning to the breath.

 

However - my personal opinion is that emotions are indeed very important - not the story and the drama of them but the internal weather they create. Stuck emotions will be stirred up - especially if you're stilling your mind by focusing on your breath... Whether they are unblocked and transformed through your day-to-day life (coming up as dramatic events that trigger internal patterns to be resolved) or through playful exploration and awareness

 

Keep Going, Keep Playing

Smile

[SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist]

You know some people here say good things, but some I cannot agree with, why because if I heard them tell you do that and I know it's only going to cause you harm, would I not be scorned by the heavens for standing by when I might tell you otherwise, you don't have to listen but so long as I say it that is enough.

 

The Tao is about clearing away emotion, not saturating yourself in them. That is nonsense,(no offense here just what I believe) think about it, if you are going to be super emotional your not being any different than anyone else, who laughs cries and lets their feelings run their lives. I'm not saying that clearing it away makes you some kind of unfeeling robot, but clearly doing so puts you in control, and that is the difference. We all feel all sorts of things, the true way is for some stimulus to hit you, like you said in another post those girls who were being mean, that is the stimulus, but you have trained your stability so you are unmoved, their taunts and words flow right over like a passing breeze, if you let yourself become all emotional, then their taunts and insults have cut you at the core. If you feel any response at all you have already lost your footing. This is no different than a bad driver on the road cutting you off and then giving you the finger, if you get all mad at them does that sound like someone of the great way, me thinks not. I'm not saying you hold it back either that is not correct also, you shouldn't have to hold it back cause there shouldn't be anything to hold back in the first place, get it ? You should think about this, you decide if I am wrong or right. As I said I am not here to convince you of anything, but if I stand idly by when someone needs help I fail not only myself but my teachers and those above. You must choose what to believe in for yourself, you alone decide your fate and your decisions are yours to make and responsible for, but just remember if you ask, there are alot of people out there to help you.

Edited May 14, 2009 by SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist

[SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist]

I don't want to talk to much, but sometimes things should be clarified, for examply someone said being sad and being happy is the same or sad and joy is the same whatever, the truth is it is not. Being joyful and being sad is NOT the same. Happiness brings life, the will to live, the desire to make a good life, to live life and do things. Sadness brings death, desire to hide away, shrivel up and essentially die. When did someone who was truly happy ever kill themselves ?

 

How is this the same ? Happy people build themselves fine careers make good money and live comfortably, they can then meditate all day if they choose, or practice yoga and tai ji all day as they please, eat quality organic vegan food if that is their thing. How are you going to train if you didn't set yourself up well and have to pull 9-5 er's all week long ? When you get home, your gonna just want to watch some tv and pass out. You can still do it this way I guess, but I find it disturbing that people don't realize that those people who made good money earned it, they were the ones that stayed home and studied while others went out and partied, some may resent them for their success, thinking that the way implies we should all be impoverished monks or something, FOOLISH! Nothing but. Make a good life for yourself, then you can do whatever you please, unless you think your hearty enough to go into the mountains and live like a mountain man for the rest of your life, with no electricity or running water, hunting every meal, building a fire for every meal, and simply not to freeze to death. I know survival skills well it is one of my forte's, most people dream of disapearing into the mountains like an immortal, but the reality is, until you are an immortal, you can't do this, you will simply die, if not of starvation, from a wild animal attacking you, or disease from the countless insects which will chew on you threw the night. Those that think themselves so tough in this regard should try not eating for just one week while they hike strenuously, out of ten seven or eight wouldn't make it through a day, and out of those two or three left, only one would make it through the next day. And that one would certainly be chewing on pine cones by the middle of the week. I'm not saying seek fame and glory, I'm saying set yourself up well, and you can train all day or whatever you want, that is the responsible way, the hardworking way. Just sliding by is easy anyone can do that. Throwing everything away is easy, anyone can do that. Running away from it all is easy. Facing life and taking it on and winning takes a true Human, a true practitioner of the Way. I sincerely wish you the best in this regard.

[Sunya]

I don't want to talk to much, but sometimes things should be clarified, for examply someone said being sad and being happy is the same or sad and joy is the same whatever, the truth is it is not. Being joyful and being sad is NOT the same. Happiness brings life, the will to live, the desire to make a good life, to live life and do things. Sadness brings death, desire to hide away, shrivel up and essentially die. When did someone who was truly happy ever kill themselves ?

 

 

The 4 Seals of the Dharma:

All compounded things are impermanent.

All emotions are pain.

All things have no inherent existence.

Liberation is beyond concepts.

 

I'd like to clarify the 2nd seal with my cursory limited understanding..

 

In Buddhism we are taught that all emotions are pain. this can be very hard to accept, and I know this to be true.. i'm completely addicted to pleasure feelings. but if you analyze with mindfulness you will realize that even the most pleasurable emotions have subtle grasping and suffering. and when this pleasurable feelings fade, we feel a sense of loss. because we identify with this pleasurable happy feelings, we grasp at them. the happy feelings you speak of are impermanent, if your will to live is based on happy feelings then sure enough eventually you will lose that will to live because happiness is impermanent.

 

So, since our mind is what actually constitutes our experience: the emotions themselves aren't pain, but our grasping towards them causes pain. the yearning for pleasure, and the disdain for pain.. the emotions themselves are empty. they are simply vibrations, but our mind gives them substance.

 

All emotions are bliss and emptiness if you realize their true nature.

 

The book "What Makes you Not a Buddhist" by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse is excellent, covering the 4 seals in a pragmatic no-frills writing style. highly recommended

http://www.amazon.com/What-Makes-You-Not-B...t/dp/1590304063

 

 

this is not particularly inclusive to Buddhism, as I was taught the same thing by a Hindu teacher and i'm sure Taoists say the same about the impermanence of emotions

[5ENSES]

I don't want to talk to much, but sometimes things should be clarified, for examply someone said being sad and being happy is the same or sad and joy is the same whatever, the truth is it is not. Being joyful and being sad is NOT the same. Happiness brings life, the will to live, the desire to make a good life, to live life and do things. Sadness brings death, desire to hide away, shrivel up and essentially die. When did someone who was truly happy ever kill themselves ?

 

Let me clarify. It's a difficult point to talk about rationally, and one of those delicious "aha" moments when realized.

 

I said, "I discovered that being joy is not different from being pain." Feeling joy, however, I agree, is different from feeling pain. But, the goal is to move away from the attachment to feelings, right?! In finding non-duality, if that is your aim, you will not be separate from body nor mind nor joy nor pain nor friend nor foe ... nor will you be confined by them. *Being* arising emotions was a technique that helped me find equanimity with emotions. To be one with them, not separate, and not thirsting to have them or avoid them.

 

What we're talking about is equanimity with emotional content, which includes not getting caught up in stories about which feelings are "good" or "bad." How do we develop that equanimity? I also found the Buddhist noble truths to be a helpful map. I learned a slightly different version of them than mikaelz, in which emotions like pain and joy aren't prioritized:

"The arising of dukkha", dukkha meaning thirst, or craving ... in short describing suffering as attachment (in which even a desire for enlightenment is suffering, :-) ).

 

In Zen, we discover the ox (mind) and harness it. Is there a particular map in the Tao for this?

 

SmallFrame: "The Tao is about clearing away emotion." How does the Tao talk about this this? What does it say?

[goldisheavy]

You need the wisdom to separate real from imaginary

 

No, you don't need wisdom for that. Separating real from imaginary is what all samsaric beings do all the time, and they are good at it. To stop separating real from imaginary though... that takes wisdom.

[SmallFrameGrandUltimateFist]

Yes, I agree with what you both said, my point is this though, to clear out everything is clearly quite difficult as much as we know that ultimately that is how it must be, I doubt there is really anyone here who would be so bold as to claim they have done it, and mastered it. Ok maybe a few moments here and there, maybe even for a few days, but eventually something comes up. I believe that at the very least we can try to avoid negativity as it is clearly harmful, extremes in positivity is also harmful yes, we can't just laugh like idiots all day now, and certainly that is not what I am suggesting. But I find that the place to start is to clear out the negatives, at least from there your gonna be a happy camper, you will enjoy your life. If you master that then maybe you can take the time to tone down the remaining emotions till there is none. But if you sort of try to do it all at once, it you may kind of tone it all down you still have negative thoughts, which make us feel bad no? Does anyone every really want to feel bad ? Does feeling bad motivate us to go out and do something and be somebody ? Some thoughts and emotions are bound to come up unless you have finally crystallized everything, but until then if your gonna have a thought or a feeling, may as well be a happy one right ?

[Sunya]

I know this is a Taoist forum, so in continuation of my previous post about emotions I found something in Tao Te Ching

 

verse 58

 

Happiness is rooted in misery

Misery lurks beneath happiness

Who knows what the future holds?

[Fire Dragon]

Hello Awake

 

Nice to hear about your reflections of your thoughts and emotion. When you start noticisng such things as you do you have taken a step towards your healing process I believe. Keep going with your tao.

 

 

FD

[rain]

The 4 Seals of the Dharma:

All compounded things are impermanent.

All emotions are pain.

All things have no inherent existence.

Liberation is beyond concepts.

 

I'd like to clarify the 2nd seal with my cursory limited understanding..

 

In Buddhism we are taught that all emotions are pain. this can be very hard to accept, and I know this to be true.. i'm completely addicted to pleasure feelings. but if you analyze with mindfulness you will realize that even the most pleasurable emotions have subtle grasping and suffering. and when this pleasurable feelings fade, we feel a sense of loss. because we identify with this pleasurable happy feelings, we grasp at them. the happy feelings you speak of are impermanent, if your will to live is based on happy feelings then sure enough eventually you will lose that will to live because happiness is impermanent.

 

So, since our mind is what actually constitutes our experience: the emotions themselves aren't pain, but our grasping towards them causes pain. the yearning for pleasure, and the disdain for pain.. the emotions themselves are empty. they are simply vibrations, but our mind gives them substance.

 

All emotions are bliss and emptiness if you realize their true nature.

 

The book "What Makes you Not a Buddhist" by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse is excellent, covering the 4 seals in a pragmatic no-frills writing style. highly recommended

http://www.amazon.com/What-Makes-You-Not-B...t/dp/1590304063

this is not particularly inclusive to Buddhism, as I was taught the same thing by a Hindu teacher and i'm sure Taoists say the same about the impermanence of emotions

 

 

Thank you I really needed to hear this tonight.

[Mokona]

Don't be dissuaded by the negetive feelings. Some things can only be worked out thorugh feeling them out.

Also, look into the secret smile meditation that Varj posted elsewhere. Its a goody!

Endurance helps, even though these feelings are coming in keep meditating, but not only that, follow the feelings to the source, or allow them to surface fully. You'll learn your own method of letting them go if need be.

 

A quick fix is to scoop the bad energy out and replace it with what is needed over several sessions. Even if everything is cleared out at once it will normally come back, unless the underlying pyschological cause is dealt with by the one who needs to heal. But scooping out the energy and manually placing positive energy in its place can show you how that area feels when it is healthy to begin with. (Which can really help.)

 

Its easy to go into massive, intensive detail after you've been healing for a few years - but I won't bore you with that. I'd just suggest you jump into something and give it a go! Find what works and blast this stuff away!

Good luck man!

[Chi kung apprentice]

What I experience sometimes is Sadness and DESIRE of DEATH during meditation cause I feel so good meditating and I am so dissappointed of our world and the way that life is nowadays....

 

Normally what I do is just meditate much more and I find the motivation to go on, so maybe the same meditation that makes sadness arise can make it go...

 

That is what I think

 

Hugs

 

Davy

 

The engineer mexican, actor, Chi Kung Padawan

[Chi kung apprentice]

one more advice:

 

meditate in violet colour

 

Even when I am a "Modern and New Age Metaphysics renegade" I have found that the use of colours to transmutate is pretty much universal. So if you visualize your heart chakra or the place where you feel sadness for some minutes, (try it up to one hour for deep sadness) you will feel much better.

 

Actually I used it today because some times I feel very overwhelmed by the negative energies in my sorroundings.

 

Hugs

 

Davy

 

Chi Kung Padawan