Where is the mind?

[Gerard]

I would like to hear ALL OF YOU.

[Sunya]

can you define mind?

 

mind, like God, has different meanings for different people.

 

"Let us make distinctions, and call things by their right names."

-- Henry David Thoreau, Wild Fruits.

[Gerard]

The conscious and unconscious mind, core of the Buddhist practice. I am an intrinsically Buddhist so bear that in mind, thanks.

[Guest sykkelpump]

I have tried to locate it,and I belive it is in the center of the head

[minkus]

Hey Durkhrod,

 

You lost your mind ? I give you a yell when i see it somewhere

 

 

Isnt this the first question in Tibetan Buddhism to show the inherent nature of mind wich is emptiness ?

 

We build up a whole world, a whole reality around us with our thoughts that are actually empty in nature ? Devastating !

 

Try to grasp a thought and you loose it. Try to find its origin and you cannot find it.

 

If im supposed to pick a place, a real location where the mind resides, my choise would be the heart.

 

I would like to hear your thoughts

 

Regards, M

[zanshin]

I've searched and tracked it down the trail it's left, candy wrappers, car keys, sunglasses, my left shoe strung around in all sorts of odd places, it must have come thru this way but I can't find what it is that left these sundry items about. It's not in my head or heart as I always know where those are, they do not wander.

[thelerner]

I was taught that the classical Romans and Greeks thought of the stomach area as the thinking organ. Its partly because we're taught what the brain is that we feel thoughts up there. Maybe if we were first taught the ancient belief we'd be a little more centered.

 

Course that's thought, and not the mind. Where's the mind? My mind is currently split 3 ways. Some on sensory typing, some of visual looking at the computer screen and some caught up on a string of intention to answer a question.

 

So I see the Mind Is, where the intention is. It freezes like a deer in head lights when searched for, but if you step away you can see its focus and get a little control over the beast.

 

 

Michael

[Sunya]

i think of this as an exercise in contemplation, not as a philosophical intellectual exercise, since that is just 'mind trying to find mind'

 

the mind is empty, we are told that over and over again. it has no inherent existence, and is dependent. this is mere word play and only on the level of thought.

 

through experience I see that the "I" consists of momentary flashes of awareness. awareness of perceptions (senses, body), thoughts, memories, emotions (which are themselves thoughts). breaking it down, mind is just momentary flashes of thought.

 

now that's as intellectual as I can get, because after that then there is the "watcher", the supposed perceiver, the little man in the head (early renaissance thinkers actually thought a little man existed in the forehead), so getting that far, what's next? can't think about the watcher, since the watcher is the perceiver of thoughts, now the transcendence of thoughts is required, the laser like precision of awareness self inquiry. where is the source of I? does this source exist? does a self existing, real, watcher or perceiver exist?

 

i don't know.

[awake]

I feel mind activity where my brain is. Mind activity can be measured by EEG and similar scans and has been proven to "come from" the brain area. While in religous perspective it still "comes from nothing" the physical space where its processes cause energy is in the brain area. I feel the effects of what I can only assume to be past brain activity in all parts of my body (though not always all at once), and I feel what I can only assume to be the energy of brain activity sometimes flow through all parts of my body (again though not always at once). I also sometimes see the product of mind activity in forms of hallucinations. And I see the product of mind activity whether my eyes are closed are not, through the electrical signals the various parts of my eyes transmit through my brain.

 

That's "where" it is for me. Do not forget that although god is everything and nothing, it is still manifested in ways that equate to our experience.

[sasblamthanb]

Maybe mind is not of MEST

Maybe mind is none where

Maybe most confuse brain activity with mind...

Culture certainly does... and it sets many semantic traps...

[rex]

I've got this little disquisition that lives in my wallet and gets pulled out every now and again while sitting on the pot or a train:

 

When we speak of mind, we speak of something that is not a thing in itself. In its most fundamental sense, mind is not something we can limit. We cannot say it has a particular shape, size or location, color or form, or any other limiting characteristic. The element we call space, which in our perceptual situation also has no limiting characteristics, is this very emptiness of mind; this is the elemental quality of space in the mind.

 

But mind is not simply empty; it has the illuminating potential to perceive anything whatsoever. This unlimited ability of mind to perceive is its illuminating nature, and corresponds to the element of fire.

 

This mind, essentially empty and illuminating, gives rise to all experiences which, wether samsara or Nirvana, is rooted in mind just as plants are rooted in soil. This function of the mind as the origin of all experience corresponds to the elemental quality of earth.

 

Another aspect of the mind is its dynamic quality. Mind is never still: no single experience in it lasts, but quickly passes to another. Wheter one is undergoing an emotional reaction, an experience of pleasure or pain, or a sensory perception such as seeing or hearing, the contents of the mind are always in a state of flux. This continual activity of mind is the elemental quality of wind (air).

 

Mind with these four elemental qualities has always been so and always will be. This very continuity, and the fact that mind adapts itself to different situations, corresponds to the element of water. Just as water sustains its continuity and adapts itself to every contour as it flows, the mind too is fluent, continuous, and adaptable.

[markern]

Student comes to his master asking "master where is my mind". The master replies "well were do you think it is?". Student replies "I think it is in my head, right behind the eyes". The master steps on the students foot as hard as he can and says "where is your mind know?".

[Sunya]

Mind activity can be measured by EEG and similar scans and has been proven to "come from" the brain area. While in religous perspective it still "comes from nothing" the physical space where its processes cause energy is in the brain area.

 

the physical processes cause energy? or does energy cause physical processes?

does the fact that changes in awareness can be measured by brain activity necessitate that the brain is the cause of awareness? or can these brain changes by effects of a deeper non physical cause?

 

mind activity has not been proven to come from brain, cognitive scientists are still clueless

[Squatting Monkey]

An excellent question my friend, and one that has led me to the path I now walk.

To find out where the mind is we have to find out what the mind is.

This has led me to Buddhism, and in particular, Theravada.

I learned vipassana meditation from Theravadin monks a few years ago and this has allowed me to gain insight into the nature of all phenomena.

 

Coupled with a study of

1. The Four Noble Truths

2. The Eightfold Path

3. Dependent Origination

4. Some Mahayana sutras such as Heart Sutra, Shurangama Sutra, and Sanghata Sutra.

 

I am starting to get to grips with learning how the mind works.

The next step is a study of the Abhidhamma, which is an analytical look at human consciousness. A manual of the mind.

 

So, what is the mind ?

It isn't the physical brain.

It has no form or substance. It is therefore empty of any inherent existence. It depends on other factors for it to exist.

How can anything which has no form or substance have a location ?

[forestofsouls]

If anyone is really interested, from a Buddhist perspective, there is actually an entire (Mahayana) Sutra on this. You can find a good translation here.

 

 

I have tried to locate it,and I belive it is in the center of the head

 

Why do you believe it is in the center of your head? Do you perceive it there? If so, it's not your mind.

 

 

awake,

 

I'm still waiting for some one to explain to me how insentient matter can give rise to sentient perception, either in the form(lessness) of consciousness or in the distinct mental perceptions we have.

 

Really, an EEG is nothing more than a series of mental sensations. The brain is also, in my opinon, nothing but a series of mental sensations. Pointing at the brain as the source of the mind is like pointing at a wave as the source of the ocean.

 

I feel mind activity where my brain is. Mind activity can be measured by EEG and similar scans and has been proven to "come from" the brain area. While in religous perspective it still "comes from nothing" the physical space where its processes cause energy is in the brain area. I feel the effects of what I can only assume to be past brain activity in all parts of my body (though not always all at once), and I feel what I can only assume to be the energy of brain activity sometimes flow through all parts of my body (again though not always at once). I also sometimes see the product of mind activity in forms of hallucinations. And I see the product of mind activity whether my eyes are closed are not, through the electrical signals the various parts of my eyes transmit through my brain.

Edited May 13, 2009 by forestofsouls

[Gerard]

I enjoyed reading your opinions. Keep it going guys.

 

Btw, if you look at an object during meditation and you switch roles where basically the object becomes the observer and you become the object, check what happens. I have done this before and it is funny, there are lapses where I am no longer the observer, I become the object. So where is the mind in this case?

[forestofsouls]

I find this hard to believe. Who knows you are the object? I think you may have missed the observer altogether.

 

Btw, if you look at an object during meditation and you switch roles where basically the object becomes the observer and you become the object, check what happens. I have done this before and it is funny, there are lapses where I am no longer the observer, I become the object. So where is the mind in this case?

[neidan practitioner]

I would like to hear ALL OF YOU.

 

Ok. Where ever I have looked, it is nowhere to be found.

Strangely enough, the same applies to the 'I' who is doing the looking.

Maybe I am just really bad at hide and seek.

 

[Edit - Further comments added later:]

More seriously though, before one can ask where something is, first you

should probably establish if that something exists, and you also would want to establish

what frame of reference you are using as a basis to locate that something in.

However, before you can do that, you also need to be clear on what you mean

by something 'existing'. Is one referring to 'existence' in a relative sense, as in relative

to some given frame of reference, or are we talking about existence in some sort

of absolute sense that is independent of any arbitrary frame of reference?

 

If one is talking about a relative frame of reference, then one would need to first clearly define

exactly what that frame of reference is. If one decides they are talking about existence in an

absolute sense, best of luck even getting started with establishing an approach.

 

However, before starting into all of the above, one may first want to

consider the question, why should one care? What potential benefit is there to

expend the time and energy with the above approach? Is it even a meaningful pursuit?

These may be just as difficult questions to answer as the previous ones, if not more difficult,

and may open up a whole different line of questioning.

 

So, why should one care if the mind exists or where it might be, etc?

If one answers, well, it might give you a better understanding of who and

what you are. Then I might ask again, why should I care who or what I am?

Do I even exist? What does it mean for me to exist? What is existence anyway?

You may well end up back where you started.

 

Maybe before asking any of these questions, one might first ask,

can thinking ever get me anywhere with any of these questions, or is that

just a recipe for running around in endless circles? Couild there be some

other way? I'm getting weary now, so I think 'I' will stop now.

What is now?

 

- np -

Edited May 14, 2009 by neidan practitioner

[Birch]

I know I'm doing this on purpose but we're making an assumption that there is one (a mind)

I would say its the same as all the other objects. Lots to contemplate on those so back to mind....

 

Struggling between saying it is and it isn't. (is) -

 

I don't know but I'm wasting a lot of time (euh having fun) trying to find out.

[Cyril]

I don't want to sound like I'm just wasting precious text space with this forum post or anything like that, but seriously? How can you locate the 'mind' when it is not really findable. After all, isn't the whole concept just a mere illusion in the first place?

[5ENSES]

Searching for the mind

In dewey drops of spring rains

Only reflections

[Cyril]

Searching for the mind

In dewey drops of spring rains

Only reflections

 

I cannot help but notice how true that haiku is

[33865_1494798762]

I would like to hear ALL OF YOU.

 

Mind is everywhere. Mind is electro magnetics and it's process is to be found all over the intire universe.

In fact the known, solid, physical world is "inside the mind" it is shared by all creatures and beings.

There is no my or your mind, there is only mind and there is nothing subjective to it, so in reality there is no subconsciousness either.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Guest

[33865_1494798762]

Searching is the mind itself. However, there is nothing to search for because there are no other minds.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Guest