Golden elixer

[phore]

Hey,

Ive noticed that in most of the ancient alchemical texts, the aim of the practices is to produce a light that is described by different books as a violetish, reddish, yellowish, purpleish, goldish color.  This light is typically called the golden elixir. 

 

In Taoist yoga translated by charles luk the elixir is the light of vitality, and manifests in the lower dan tien.  This elixir should be driven up to the light of essential nature (universally described as white or clear) to create the immortal fetus. 

 

In Chang po tuan and lui i-mings writings Understanding Reality, 400 Words on the Golden Elixer, and the Inner Teachings of Taoism, as translated by thomas cleary, the teachings seem to point to an apprehension of this light by a type of trance/ serenity meditation.  I can see how this can open up the microcosmic orbit naturally, and possibly relate to the qigong centric teachings of alchemy. 

 

Decibelle posts her interpretation of these texts here. http://thedaobums.com/topic/33950-400-words-on-the-gold-elixir/

She seems to indicate that working with the light of essential nature (turning the light around) is the key here.

 

I have noticed references to a purple light in zen writings.  I believe there is a notable mention in the Sutra of Hui Neng (the sixth patriarch) as translated by Thomas Cleary, but I will have to verify this. 

 

I believe that Mantak Chia has a book out about Golden Elixir Qigong referring to saliva.  I believe that in his system the sexual energy is brought to the pineal gland to activate the hormones that are secreted into the saliva.  This particular practice sounds similar to some yoga practices relating to Kundalini. 

 

Glenn morris refers to the Phosphenes behind the Eyes changing colors in his works.

 

Does anyone know anything about what the golden elixir is, how to cultivate it and what to do with it when you've got it?

 

It seems so central in Taoist Alchemy that im surprised we don't mention it more.

 

Love and Light

Tony

[JinlianPai]

There is the concern about this.

 

But the concern should be on the golden dragon.

 

The Guardian of earth at a certain point nothing stops its alchemy nothing. It has the power of all the other 4 guardians.

 

The 4 guardians only share in the golden dragons power.

 

It has enough power to kick whole lineages off of the earth.

 

Its the guardian of earth.

 

Nothing compares to it.

 

The esoteric path is about putting the signs together.

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

",,, But the concern should be on the golden dragon.

The Guardian of earth at a certain point nothing stops its alchemy nothing. It has the power of all the other 4 guardians.

The 4 guardians only share in the golden dragons power.

It has enough power to kick whole lineages off of the earth.

Its the guardian of earth.

Nothing compares to it."

-----

 

This seems like a sentimental sort of interpretation.

 

It's 5 phases diagram showing associated planets and directions, upside down from classic way.

 

Soil is center, Earth phase.

 

Other sense of Dragon is the constellation Draco, and the Pearl the Dragon holds is the Ecliptic Pole (and also this is the "Serpent" and "Apple" in Bible story). So this is also marking time and characteristics of time.

 

But this thread is about the "Golden Elixir" - something else entirely from any of the above items.

 

 

- VonKrankenhaus

[phore]

Hi Tony, Sounds like you missed the recent Secret of the Golden Light threads. if you search recent posts by me, you might find something of interest. Best to you.

http://thedaobums.com/topic/37743-golden-immortal/page-10

 

There is lots of good information on here.  I assume this must be what you are talking about.  Let me know if there is something else.

 

What if the whole experience is a non-dual one?  The various forms of external alchemy, internal alchemy, auxiliary practices, and direct practices, are all just ways of organizing the mind on a certain symbolic layer.  If one symbolic layer is truly harmonized then all layers just being one whole are harmonized.  When true harmony (love?) arises then the elixir is formed.  The elixir being an experience of wholeness naturally exists on all levels and transcends all levels. 

 

I don't really know anything, but that seems like a plausible explanation for why some people emphasize the microcosmic orbit, while others emphasize awareness.  This would indicate that as long as the alchemical symbols were harmonized in the correct way, then it doesn't really matter how people interpret them consciously. 

 

This might suggest that there are no lesser or greater paths, but only the path(tao).  The Tao can be direct or indirect.  From my experience in studying martial arts, direct approaches aren't necessarily better than indirect approaches.

 

Poetic interpretation and scientific explanation are two ways of expressing the same.

Working with the body as symbolic representation of the self within the mind or working with the mind directly are two  methods of communicating.

Awareness and awareness of bodily functions, or even awareness of the strange concoction you are making in your fireplace is all awareness.

Yin and yang contain each other, lead into each other, compliment each other, and define each each other. 

It's all Tai Chi.

 

Love and Light

Tony

Edited March 19, 2015 by phore

[peacedog94]

Golden light is generally associated with enhanced vital energy in terms of practice. Bone breathing and running the orbits a lot is a good way to generate this.

 

Purple light represents Akasha and is loosely associated with the throat and external dan tien above the head. If you work with the elements long enough and learn how to generate equilibrium using them most people will at some point begin to spontaneously generate Akasha. Otherwise, most people learn how to do this via initiation.

 

Checkout my blog for information on this at yogicengineering.com

 

 

[phore]

Golden light is generally associated with enhanced vital energy in terms of practice. Bone breathing and running the orbits a lot is a good way to generate this. Purple light represents Akasha and is loosely associated with the throat and external dan tien above the head. If you work with the elements long enough and learn how to generate equilibrium using them most people will at some point begin to spontaneously generate Akasha. Otherwise, most people learn how to do this via initiation. Checkout my blog for information on this at yogicengineering.com

I like your website. 

http://yogicengineering.com/2015/03/10/eleven-primary-energies-of-meditation/

 

This seems to be the most relevant article. 

Does anyone make a distinction between yellow and gold light?  What about purple and violet?

 

Love and Lgiht

Tony

Edited March 19, 2015 by phore

[peacedog94]

Some of the differences in color simply come down to perception on the part of the practitioner. I've never trained anyone who was color blind, but I think they would have some interesting commentary.

 

The main differences between the energies manifest in their separate properties.

 

For example, while vital energy often manifests with a clear or yellow tinged color it also has an enervating effect on the fasciae tissue and nervous system making you feel active and full.

 

Earth energy on the other hand feels heavy and still despite the royal golden color. Precisely speaking it acts as a binding force amongst the other elements, but most people refer to it as feeling heavy and still.

Edited March 19, 2015 by peacedog94

[JinlianPai]

Re:

-----

",,, But the concern should be on the golden dragon.

The Guardian of earth at a certain point nothing stops its alchemy nothing. It has the power of all the other 4 guardians.

The 4 guardians only share in the golden dragons power.

It has enough power to kick whole lineages off of the earth.

Its the guardian of earth.

Nothing compares to it."

-----

 

This seems like a sentimental sort of interpretation.

 

It's 5 phases diagram showing associated planets and directions, upside down from classic way.

 

Soil is center, Earth phase.

 

Other sense of Dragon is the constellation Draco, and the Pearl the Dragon holds is the Ecliptic Pole (and also this is the "Serpent" and "Apple" in Bible story). So this is also marking time and characteristics of time.

 

But this thread is about the "Golden Elixir" - something else entirely from any of the above items.

 

 

- VonKrankenhaus

 

 

All of nature has a golden aura.

 

All meditation systems use earth chi the power of the golden dragon.

 

The practitioners of the golden dragon meditations at some point will only get stronger and stronger.

 

It is a spiritual alchemy. It is like cultivating the north star energy but you live on the north star its kind of like that.

 

Their vibration will grow but they will not burn out its earth chi their hair will stay black and there jing will be strong.

 

All of my research has lead to this.

 

If there is someone who has all of the golden dragon system then he would be close to unbeatable.

[voidisyinyang]

the original qigong master tells a story of how he had a student in his class who has the most amazing aura he had seen of any of his students - she had a golden aura like the golden auras of the immortals he knows in the mountains of China developing their yang shen golden immortal bodies.

 

So he personally asked the student if he could teach her qigong but the thing is she wasn't consciously aware she had this amazing aura and she couldn't get her life in order to train seriously in qigong.

 

So the thing about golden light - a person can have it as their spirit energy but still be unaware of it.

 

I think to consciously be aware of it then you have to build up your yang qi energy first from after the lower tan tien of yin qi foundation is established.

 

The original qigong master talks about the various colors - it is as with quantum frequency - the higher the frequency, small wavelength means the stronger the energy since quantum energy is based on frequency not amplitude.

 

So violet is the strongest energy based on color but my understanding is the golden light as the strongest is really this combination of the yang qi energy or yuan qi along with the yin shen light energy.

 

But in the end as Ramana Maharshi points out, the formless awareness is not light and you can not see formless awareness as the Emptiness - but formless awareness creates the energy of light.

 

Or as someone who had a near death experience was taught - the light they saw in the cosmos - they asked if it was God and were told - no you can not see God but the light is the breath of God.

 

So - in terms of the yin/yang dynamics Ramana Maharshi says that the Sattva pure light stage merges into the formless awareness and so light is seen but the mind as consciousness or light is not the formless awareness as Emptiness.

 

In terms of Taoist Yoga - I think this is the difference between the pineal gland as the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality - when focused on as "immutable thought" it then increases the spirit light of the heart - the Cavity of Spirit. And so then the vitality increases the spirit energy and they descend via the small universe to create the Cavity of Spirit-Vitality which is the lower tan t'ien.

 

Both the vitality and spirit emerge originally from the prenatal heart - on the right and left sides and then leave the body out of the eyes as the right and left eyes. So when the lower tan t'ien fills with spirit-qi energy then the heart and pineal gland really open up into the Emptiness as the formless awareness.

 

So yeah the process is based on an infinite energy creation from complementary opposites - and that process is formless so instead of defining it by light rather Ramana Maharshi calls it Mouna Samadhi - silence samadhi - or it is called Quan Yin - sound-current as the "inner ear method." Qigong master Yan Xin makes similar references to listening I think in his cultivation book - the process of listening is actually eternal since there is no origin to listening - no "one" is listening - and the energy creates itself from the complementary opposites of the harmonics as the Tai Chi (the perfect fourth and perfect fifth music intervals).

 

Or in science you can call is sonofusion that creates sonoluminescence which is brighter and hotter than the sun.

 

 

interesting vid - he's saying that implosion vortices create violet light.

 

That makes sense since the implosion energy is based on quantum frequency from acoustic cavitation as sonofusion.

 

So in science it's argued that consciousness is quantum and is resonated by ultrasound waves of the vortices - the cytoskeleton of the neurons - with a much faster communication rate than normal neurons.

 

So then the violet or blue light is seen more commonly during meditation from this energy - and from my experience is it when more of the jing energy is sublimated up into the pineal gland and this then increases the power of the pineal gland as yang qi energy which then increases the light intensity of the cavity of spirit from the heart.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[JinlianPai]

To me the golden energy is very pleasant and blissful.

 

Gold is balance of yin and yang to be at peace.

 

My teacher gave me an empowerment of the golden energy. It went down the spine to the kidneys and to the ldt.

 

The golden energy moves like this.

 

If I manifest it my hands and touch someone with it it will always move down the spine to the kidneys and to the ldt.

[JinlianPai]

the original qigong master tells a story of how he had a student in his class who has the most amazing aura he had seen of any of his students - she had a golden aura like the golden auras of the immortals he knows in the mountains of China developing their yang shen golden immortal bodies.

 

So he personally asked the student if he could teach her qigong but the thing is she wasn't consciously aware she had this amazing aura and she couldn't get her life in order to train seriously in qigong.

 

So the thing about golden light - a person can have it as their spirit energy but still be unaware of it.

 

I think to consciously be aware of it then you have to build up your yang qi energy first from after the lower tan tien of yin qi foundation is established.

 

I would really like to have this on my golden immortal thread   http://thedaobums.com/topic/37743-golden-immortal/

 

What else do you know about the golden immortals?

 

My teacher told me that this knowledge came into china via Buddhism and it was given to taoist and buddhist a like in china.

 

With the taoist it developed in a different path than the indian buddhist who had the original and the chinese buddhist who turned it into a internal martial art.

 

So as far as I know

 

there is a

 

traditional taoist version that went to lu dongbin

A traditional buddhist version which was the golden lotus

A internal buddhist martial art under the same name developed by the chinese.

 

All 3 versions are in china.

 

 

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=t5pZaCTJX3oC&pg=PR12&lpg=PR12&dq=gold+lotus+immortal&source=bl&ots=HB5rwlzKRX&sig=rwGjxC0-tMomUEK4-VbJaNpBnBg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aFLtVKGWJrHjsASLhYCIBQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=gold%20lotus%20immortal&f=false

The gold lotus of taoism symbolises enlightenment., the Tao (the Way) or spiritual rebirth. The opening of the flower is believed to represent the development  of spiritual potential of humans.

 

 

http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/Guanyin_%28Avalokitesvara%29

The Complete Perfection Tradition called for the Oneness of the Three Teachings from the very beginning, and had groups named after the Three Teachings, such as the Three Teachings Golden Lotus Society, the Three Teachings Jade Florence Society, the Three Teachings Equality Society, etc.. Such a concept was an important basis for accepting the Bodhisattva into Daoism. The Complete Perfection tradition was successful in this respect.

 

In short, the Guanyin cult originated in Buddhism and was absorbed by Daoism, and underwent changes during its spread among the common people. The Guanyin cult thus has a strong sense of folklore.

 

 

 

the Golden Immortal of Grand Enlightenment, arhats into Reverends and Guanyin into Guanyin dashi, and they were all absorbed into Daoism.

Edited March 19, 2015 by JinlianPai

[voidisyinyang]

it sounds like the energy healing that the original qigong master does - http://springforestqigong.com - it is what I call a laser-love transmission but you see a bright gold light and it fills up the lower tan tien with energy.

 

The question is - will the person build on the energy or will the energy get used for lower frequency purposes?

 

The answer is that we are surrounded by people who want to use the energy for lower frequency purposes. haha.

 

So that is the challenge.

 

My understanding is the lineages overlap in the astral realms - check out Bradford Keeney's testimonials - what the Bushmen calls the Ostrich Egg - as the Cosmic Egg -

 

So he experienced all the spiritual masters in that final astral realm - also discussed by the Kriya Yoga lineage.

 

https://www.facebook.com/keeneyinstitute

 

Just scroll down and there's part 1 and part 2 of his testimonials.

[JinlianPai]

it sounds like the energy healing that the original qigong master does - http://springforestqigong.com - it is what I call a laser-love transmission but you see a bright gold light and it fills up the lower tan tien with energy.

 

The question is - will the person build on the energy or will the energy get used for lower frequency purposes?

 

The answer is that we are surrounded by people who want to use the energy for lower frequency purposes. haha.

 

So that is the challenge.

 

My understanding is the lineages overlap in the astral realms - check out Bradford Keeney's testimonials - what the Bushmen calls the Ostrich Egg - as the Cosmic Egg -

 

So he experienced all the spiritual masters in that final astral realm - also discussed by the Kriya Yoga lineage.

 

https://www.facebook.com/keeneyinstitute

 

Just scroll down and there's part 1 and part 2 of his testimonials.

 

 

Ill look into the suggested reading material and get back to you on that.

 

But

 

What you said about the laser light transmission was interesting as well.

 

And yes you really do feel it building in the ldt.

 

The interesting thing I noticed that with what I train in is that it somehow relates to actual gold. If I hold or look at real gold I buzz with a resonation. So this makes me think that actual alchemical gold is being built inside the body.

[voidisyinyang]

There is a Chan Master book called "Bones of My Master" by George Crane. The master there says that the combination of jing and qi in the lower tan tien creates a hard form - like crystalized blood or jing or something. It seems similar to the piezoelectric energy of the pineal gland. The Bushmen call it nails or darts - and then the Australians call it spirit crystals - or something like that. So the bones of Buddhist masters are looked at and saved as crystal energy. Yeah A.P. Elkin's book was the classic on it.

 

 

 

What is Shamanism - Features - Johannesburg Live

www.jhblive.com/kultcha/features/what_is_

shamanism

/10075

Shamanism

is a fully developed enterprise among

Australian

tribes who ... and materialized in various ways, as a fluid, rock

crystal

, or magical

dart

 

 

 

His or her bones are replaced with quartz crystals, precious metals, or similar magical substances. For instance in Borneo, according to Eliade, the spirits of past shamans come to the initiate, they "cut his head open, take out his brains, wash and restorethem... they plant barbed hooks on the tips of his fingers to enable him to seize the soul and hold it fast; and lastly they pierce his heart with an arrow to make him tender-hearted, and full of sympathy with the sick and suffering."

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=QgEeC5V1fM0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=crystal&f=false

 

Yeah googlebook link so the same tradition in Australia - a magical crystal enfuses with the blood of the initiate and turns the person into a shaman - and the crystal can later be removed and then used to initiate someone else.

 

But it also included "shiny stones."

 

Anyway alchemy originated in Africa - spread out of Ethiopia - around the world - and the blacksmiths were the alchemists - the blacksmiths were the shamans and the blacksmiths lived isolated lives, not marrying, and so then they were both feared and respected.

 

My book goes into that more - but it deals with the power of the reptile energy as kundalini energy for alchemical transformation - in Egypt - the power of the crocodile but elsewhere the snake - python or rainbow snake as N/om - kundalini boiling heat energy  up the spine.

 

So we can see the dragon tradition from this - the flying snake - guarding gold. the slaying of the dragon as alchemical training.

 

The Kogi, the only intact Pre-Colombian tribe of the Andes - living in secret - use gold for alchemical training - gold is used for divination and astral travel. So the gold had this purpose throughout the PreColombian tribes. While in Egypt and Ancient Greece it was believed if you were buried with gold then you were ensured to go to heaven to be immortal and so the gold treasures in the tombs of Egypt. this was tied to gold as the currency used for Solar temple worship whereas silver was used for lunar worship.

 

What happened is that iron became more valuable than silver around 1200 BCE - so then iron used for weapons - increased the power of patrirachy - iron used by men for raping/plowing the land. So then the circular altars had to be made the same area as the square male altars - the circular female houses were destroyed - and the lunar energy was downplayed.

 

So I would say that the Golden Elixir has to rely on silver lunar energy as much as golden solar energy and so in the more ancient cultures - then the crystal rainbow energy is probably more emphasized rather than gold or silver.

[JinlianPai]

There is a Chan Master book called "Bones of My Master" by George Crane. The master there says that the combination of jing and qi in the lower tan tien creates a hard form - like crystalized blood or jing or something. It seems similar to the piezoelectric energy of the pineal gland. The Bushmen call it nails or darts - and then the Australians call it spirit crystals - or something like that. So the bones of Buddhist masters are looked at and saved as crystal energy. Yeah A.P. Elkin's book was the classic on it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=QgEeC5V1fM0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=crystal&f=false

 

Yeah googlebook link so the same tradition in Australia - a magical crystal enfuses with the blood of the initiate and turns the person into a shaman - and the crystal can later be removed and then used to initiate someone else.

 

But it also included "shiny stones."

 

Anyway alchemy originated in Africa - spread out of Ethiopia - around the world - and the blacksmiths were the alchemists - the blacksmiths were the shamans and the blacksmiths lived isolated lives, not marrying, and so then they were both feared and respected.

 

My book goes into that more - but it deals with the power of the reptile energy as kundalini energy for alchemical transformation - in Egypt - the power of the crocodile but elsewhere the snake - python or rainbow snake as N/om - kundalini boiling heat energy  up the spine.

 

So we can see the dragon tradition from this - the flying snake - guarding gold. the slaying of the dragon as alchemical training.

 

The Kogi, the only intact Pre-Colombian tribe of the Andes - living in secret - use gold for alchemical training - gold is used for divination and astral travel. So the gold had this purpose throughout the PreColombian tribes. While in Egypt and Ancient Greece it was believed if you were buried with gold then you were ensured to go to heaven to be immortal and so the gold treasures in the tombs of Egypt. this was tied to gold as the currency used for Solar temple worship whereas silver was used for lunar worship.

 

What happened is that iron became more valuable than silver around 1200 BCE - so then iron used for weapons - increased the power of patrirachy - iron used by men for raping/plowing the land. So then the circular altars had to be made the same area as the square male altars - the circular female houses were destroyed - and the lunar energy was downplayed.

 

So I would say that the Golden Elixir has to rely on silver lunar energy as much as golden solar energy and so in the more ancient cultures - then the crystal rainbow energy is probably more emphasized rather than gold or silver.

 

 

Thats pretty interesting about the bones when ever the gold light is manifested it feels like its coming from the bones but I can tell its not being stored there.

 

Ive heard of hindu practitioners actually using gold in their practices where they would conduct rituals to asorbe the energy from the gold into their bodies.

 

Given my current practice and what I experienced this leaves me with the question of how literal and not metaphorical the ancient alchemist were when they referred to transmuting the essence into gold.

 

It may have been literal.

Edited March 20, 2015 by JinlianPai

[peacedog94]

Jinlianpai,

 

Excellent point about the golden energy going to the lower dan tien. In most systems this is considered the home of vital energy in the body and the kidney have a direct effect on its generation.

 

Innersoundqigong,

 

You asked about how a practitioner can use transmitted energy. The truth of the matter is it can go either way. Energy can be transmitted to someone to perk them up if they are tired/dragging and you can see this subconsciously done on a sports field or in military exercises. One member of the group will be trailing and someone will come up to them and pump them up. They rally and the group moves. on

 

Otherwise, a very strong practitioner can essentially activate a given energy, or sometimes ability, in someone who has not quite reached a given point of development. When the saints in the New Testament talk about how Christ gave them their gifts this is what they are referring to. 

 

Cheers,

 

Peacedog

 

www.yogicengineering.com

[voidisyinyang]

Hey Peacedog - you crack up big time. Cuz I'm talking about people getting loaded up on laser-love energy and then it's get misused and then you refer to sports and military.

 

I realize you're talking on a subconscious level - but the laser-love energy is way beyond anything that would be on a subconscious level.

 

The original humans had no military and no warfare and that was 90% of human history and yet it's totally ignored by modern humans - and the whole culture of the original humans was based on laser-love energy. I'm referring to the Bushmen.

 

Also "engineering" relies on irrational magnitude using symmetric geometry - it inherently goes against how to create the laser-lover energy based on complementary opposites logic.

 

So yeah I realize that we all gotta do what we can to make the world a better place - to have our reforms, etc. but there is what I call the "trajectory of tantric technology" - based on the "separation of heaven and earth" and so as engineering intensifies then the destruction of life on earth gets worse.

 

So is the "golden elixir" really just a part of this Freemasonic attempt to "contain" infinity - as a patriarchal Solar Dynasty mass sacrifice ritual priesthood?

 

For example sports are based on dopamine addiction - a win/lose dualistic logic. Modern civilization is also based on this true/false win/lose logic that is physiologically just male ejaculation addiction - dopamine and then cortisol which increases stress and then the cycle escalates a destruction. It's built into our engineering mathematics.

 

Take Burma - there traditional Buddhist culture is not dualistic and so their national sport is basically a sophisticated version of hacky-sack. Everyone is a winner.

 

Not that Burma is perfect, obviously, especially after British imperialism. But Buddhism was a reform religion and an earlier one than Christianity - still I would say both still stuck in the Solar Dynasty patriarchy. Buddhist logic is still derived from the dualistic Vedic logic.

 

So the earlier Samkhya philosophy is based on the three-in-one unity like the Tai Chi - and so the complementary opposites are tied to tonal language and to trance music from out of Africa using the 1-4-5 music intervals that are infinite and can not be "engineered" - they can not be contained.

 

"If you do A, you get B."

 

O.K. but the basic symmetric trick obviously is to replace an A/B ratio with a C variable using symmetric logic - what I call the "bait and switch" trick that attempts to contain infinity.

 

For example  - 2/3 is the perfect fifth as C to F a subharmonic while 3/2 is the perfect fifth as C to G a harmonic.

 

That is the Tai Chi - it is empirically true but it is non-commutative since the geometric symbols - do not line up as A and B, - A turns into C in one direction while turns into B in the other.

 

Non-commutative means you change the direction and you change the value of the operation. So Time is not symmetric while frequency and amplitude - your basic classical physics concepts rely on symmetric time producing intensity of energy from an increased mass as increased tension using logarithms. Increased tension means increased social injustice and increased ecological destruction.

 

Consider the Peace symbol - it really attempts to reveal the secret of the Tai  Chi as the equal-tempered triangle either has to resort to irrational magnitude to be "precise" or it has to be honest that number and magnitude do not have a one-to-one correspondence and instead "sacred geometry" resonates into a formless awareness infinity that can not be engineered.

 

We can listen but no one is listening - consciousness is listening to us. haha.

 

Happy Equinox.

[phore]

Or as someone who had a near death experience was taught - the light they saw in the cosmos - they asked if it was God and were told - no you can not see God but the light is the breath of God.

1. Alleged duality between self as individual form and god as a creator. 

2.  Alleged trinity between light, god, and Individual asking the question.

3.  Add a fourth entity as the voice refers to the light as an object, defining itself as other than the light.

4.  The man accepts the defined multiplicity and naturally falls back into the world of form. 

 

It appears to me as though disembodied spiritual voices aren't into nonduality. 

 

On another note, Drew how do you understand the statement made in Taoist Yoga concerning the golden-purple light of vitality forming a polarity with the white light in the third eye.

 

There is the concern about this.

 

But the concern should be on the golden dragon.

 

The Guardian of earth at a certain point nothing stops its alchemy nothing. It has the power of all the other 4 guardians.

 

The 4 guardians only share in the golden dragons power.

 

It has enough power to kick whole lineages off of the earth.

 

Its the guardian of earth.

 

Nothing compares to it.

 

The esoteric path is about putting the signs together.

 

 

Concerning the earth element, Liu I ming, in his commentary on Understanding Reality seems to make a distinction between the yellow woman/the go between/the matchmaker/ the earth element and the Golden Elixir/the mysterious pass/ the valley spirit. 

 

The yellow woman is apparently considered by him as what brings the dragon and Tiger/ essence and Sense/ mercury and lead together.

 

The golden elixer on the other hand is what happens when the disparate elements of human existence begin to fuse together. 

 

Liu I mings work seems to suggest a form of meditation that doesn't rely on the microcosmic orbit. 

 

He suggests that the True lead is the yang in the triagram water.  The water represents the world of external forms, and the Metal (yang element) in water is the sense/shining mind/ mind of the Tao.  The suggestion seems to be that the tao is in the center of everything and we go about our lives looking at what is staring us in the face.

 

The True mercury is the Yin within the triagram fire.  The fire represents the human mind which is consciousness or essence with a wandering distracted element within it.   This wandering or human mind is the true mercury. 

 

The suggestion to form the golden elixer is that the wandering mind must be returned to the shining mind constantly.   When proficiency in this skill is acquired the golden elixir is formed. 

 

Liu goes on to say that the golden elixer must be reverted and refined.  The process of reversion seems to be the process of yin convergence, or stripping away the mundane conditioning.  The process of refining seems to be allowing the tao to grow in the practitioners life harmonizing yin and yang or flexibility and firmness.

 

The fully restored elixer according to Liu is the primordial unified energy.  As Tao views everything as energy then this might indicate the oneness of all things or nonduality. 

 

This is reminiscent of certain zen teachings, like the quote by a teacher that says basically. 

"Can' you see the Green mountains in front of you.  If you say you can see them, then how do you see.  If you say that you cant see them then how can you say they are invisible." 

This seems to indicate that some of those crazy old zen guys had some sense (True Lead) after all. 

 

There is also a common saying in zen that "The meaning of zen is not apart from the 5 senses."

 

This seems similar to the Trika in Kashmir shiavism  The trika is a trident.  Each point of the trident is the Knower, Knowledge, and the object of knowledge.  These points appear separate but they are all the same trident.

This might indicate that Kashmir shiavism understands the true lead (sense or knowledge) 

 

In fact this echoes another of Liu I mings statements that the shining mind contains real knowledge within it. 

 

These are just some observations on the work Understanding Reality by Chang Po Tuan with commentary by Liu I ming, translated by Thomas Cleary. 

 

Love and Light

Tony

[JinlianPai]

Jinlianpai,

 

Excellent point about the golden energy going to the lower dan tien. In most systems this is considered the home of vital energy in the body and the kidney have a direct effect on its generation.

 

The golden light energy when I apply it to another person flows the mco in reverse.

 

The length of time the golden light is applied decides the type of the empowerment.

 

The energy flows the Mco in reverse down the spine to the kidneys to the ldt and then up the front. If i keep the energy applied the full circuit will spin until I shut the golden light energy off.

[JinlianPai]

Concerning the earth element, Liu I ming, in his commentary on Understanding Reality seems to make a distinction between the yellow woman/the go between/the matchmaker/ the earth element and the Golden Elixir/the mysterious pass/ the valley spirit. 

 

The yellow woman is apparently considered by him as what brings the dragon and Tiger/ essence and Sense/ mercury and lead together.

 

The golden elixer on the other hand is what happens when the disparate elements of human existence begin to fuse together. 

 

Liu I mings work seems to suggest a form of meditation that doesn't rely on the microcosmic orbit. 

 

He suggests that the True lead is the yang in the triagram water.  The water represents the world of external forms, and the Metal (yang element) in water is the sense/shining mind/ mind of the Tao.  The suggestion seems to be that the tao is in the center of everything and we go about our lives looking at what is staring us in the face.

 

The True mercury is the Yin within the triagram fire.  The fire represents the human mind which is consciousness or essence with a wandering distracted element within it.   This wandering or human mind is the true mercury. 

 

The suggestion to form the golden elixer is that the wandering mind must be returned to the shining mind constantly.   When proficiency in this skill is acquired the golden elixir is formed. 

 

Liu goes on to say that the golden elixer must be reverted and refined.  The process of reversion seems to be the process of yin convergence, or stripping away the mundane conditioning.  The process of refining seems to be allowing the tao to grow in the practitioners life harmonizing yin and yang or flexibility and firmness.

 

The fully restored elixer according to Liu is the primordial unified energy.  As Tao views everything as energy then this might indicate the oneness of all things or nonduality. 

 

This is reminiscent of certain zen teachings, like the quote by a teacher that says basically. 

"Can' you see the Green mountains in front of you.  If you say you can see them, then how do you see.  If you say that you cant see them then how can you say they are invisible." 

This seems to indicate that some of those crazy old zen guys had some sense (True Lead) after all. 

 

There is also a common saying in zen that "The meaning of zen is not apart from the 5 senses."

 

This seems similar to the Trika in Kashmir shiavism  The trika is a trident.  Each point of the trident is the Knower, Knowledge, and the object of knowledge.  These points appear separate but they are all the same trident.

This might indicate that Kashmir shiavism understands the true lead (sense or knowledge) 

 

In fact this echoes another of Liu I mings statements that the shining mind contains real knowledge within it. 

 

These are just some observations on the work Understanding Reality by Chang Po Tuan with commentary by Liu I ming, translated by Thomas Cleary. 

 

Love and Light

Tony

 

 

I have one of the golden dragon meds. I wouldnt post something that I knew could be bs. Im looking for the rest of the meds.

 

My teacher died so I have to continue my research.

[phore]

The golden light energy when I apply it to another person flows the mco in reverse.

 

The length of time the golden light is applied decides the type of the empowerment.

 

The energy flows the Mco in reverse down the spine to the kidneys to the ldt and then up the front. If i keep the energy applied the full circuit will spin until I shut the golden light energy off.

 

Interesting observation.  Does your mco flow backwards when using the golden light? 

 

In Taoist Yoga there is no discussion of the mco flowing backwards, however in Yang Jwing Mings work there is reference to the mco flowing backwards along the wind path.  In Kap this backwards mco is used extensively to alleviate Kundalini syndrome and cool down the energy.

 

A chinese friend informed me that she had read a chinese text that interpreted "going along in reverse"  as reversing the flow of the MCO. 

 

As for the yellow dragon, I don't mean to imply that its incorrect, I'm just interested in how it works.  Maybe you can help me to understand.

 

Do you have a link to the Golden dragon meditation you mentioned?

 

Love and Light

Tony

[JinlianPai]

Interesting observation.  Does your mco flow backwards when using the golden light? 

 

In Taoist Yoga there is no discussion of the mco flowing backwards, however in Yang Jwing Mings work there is reference to the mco flowing backwards along the wind path.  In Kap this backwards mco is used extensively to alleviate Kundalini syndrome and cool down the energy.

 

A chinese friend informed me that she had read a chinese text that interpreted "going along in reverse"  as reversing the flow of the MCO. 

 

As for the yellow dragon, I don't mean to imply that its incorrect, I'm just interested in how it works.  Maybe you can help me to understand.

 

Do you have a link to the Golden dragon meditation you mentioned?

 

Love and Light

Tony

 

Yes it does flow backwards. My teacher gave me an empowerment he put his hand on my head the energy went down my spine to the kidneys the ldt started to buzz and fill then it went up and I felt the energy in my 3rd eye.

 

That's just the nature of the energy.

 

Sorry no links I was told there was a link between my practice and the golden dragon system.

Edited March 21, 2015 by JinlianPai

[voidisyinyang]

There is a "wind path" thread on this forum -

 

So I looked it up and Yang Jwing Ming actually refers to the central channel energy for the water path and says it's a very advanced technique only after the lower tan tien is full of energy.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=0FOuAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT40&lpg=PT40&dq=wind+path++Yang+Jwing+Ming&source=bl&ots=Hyomlcb8Yp&sig=HWTugts_QZvUg99avs4aQKAL0xg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TdgNVc-nGsyrgwSN5oPwDw&ved=0CFkQ6AEwCw

 

googlebook link on Yang Jwing Ming discussing wind path and water path.

 

Transmitting energy to people via the reverse path - is actually discussed in Taoist Yoga - they don't call it the reverse path but I have seen in my Taoist Sourcebook that indeed the most common form of sickness is the small universe going in reverse.

 

Because as Taoist Yoga details - the yin qi energy from the heart's fire goes in reverse up and out of the eyes.

 

The small universe goes in the direction it does - down the front - because the prenatal vitality of the pineal gland increases the spirit light and the heart's fire as qi energy so that it creates the lower tan tien as the cavity of spirit-vitality.

 

When you have the qi go down the back channel this is due to evil thoughts triggering the pineal gland to shoot qi down to create fluid and then the yin qi goes up the front and out of the eyes - as the reverse small universe - so you do transmit energy to other people but it is just "yin qi" energy and meanwhile you burn up your yuan qi by it being used to create fluid out of the yin jing energy of the cavity of vitality below the lower tan tien.

 

Certainly it will lower kundalini energy because you are losing energy by transmitting it out of the eyes.

 

This is actually the opposite of creating the lower tan tien but it is the most common reason for failing in the training because the training increases the yin qi energy and as heart's fire it easily goes up the front channel and out of the eyes - twinkling of the eyes at forms of love - as Taoist Yoga says - the training excites the very passions that it is has to quiet in order to increase the PreNatal Vitality energy from the Emptiness - the immutable thought concentration that activates the pineal gland.

 

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,20963.msg207018.html

 

This source claims its the water path that uses the central channel - to separate the water chi by going up the center and down the front. But as Yang Jwing Ming emphasis it is this water path that is the secret to Bone Marrow washing for advanced immortality training to convert the jing energy into qi.

 

so now I search water path gold immortality.

 

 

Great Collection of Golden Elixir ( ) said, “Zi and Wu are the middle
points of heaven and earth. In heaven, they are the sun and the moon; in humans, they
are the heart and kidneys; in time, they are Zi ( , midnight) and Wu ( , noon); in
the Eight Trigrams, they are Kan ( , Water) and Li ( , Fire); in orientation, they are
the south and the north.”9 Also, Dr. Yang, Ji-Zhou ( , 1522-1620 A.D.) explained
in his book, The Complete Book of Acupuncture and Moxibustion( ),
“Conception and Governing Vessels of a human body, back and front are analogous to
nature’s Zi-Wu ( , midnight-noon). If analogous to south and north, they can be
divided and combined. When divided, Yin and Yang are not disordered, and when
combined, they coordinate seamlessly with each other. One is two and two is one.”10 In
the Small Circulation fire path, Qi circulates more strongly in the Conception Vessel
(Ren Mai, ) than in the Governing Vessel (Du Mai, ) during daytime, while it
circulates more strongly in the Governing Vessel at night. It seems they are two vessels,
but in function they are one, since they belong to the same circuit.

 

pdf link

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ymaa.com%2Ffiles%2FISBN0673sample.pdf&ei=xOANVcWtFYOxggTr5IG4DQ&usg=AFQjCNF_E9Rv-x_v9NY8hO_H0JGnKVNEQQ&sig2=Ym2MKUu6uWgFhHSQQhHmhQ

 

So then this question was asked:

 

This is something that I've been thinking about lately, which wasn't clear to me when reading Taoist Yoga. TY seems to say that the tip of the tongue must always be on the SOFT palate at all times (the water path). This is the Heavenly Pool. The Fire path on the HARD palate is NOT the Heavenly Pool.  

 

However, I've always been taught to keep the tongue on the Hard palate (fire path) during the day, and the WIND path (behind the teeth) at night when sleeping. 

 

So can anyone clear up my confusion? Following Taoist Yoga, should our tongues always be on the soft, water palate, even when NOT meditating?

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/28582-taoist-yoga-discussion-thread/page-4

 

Taoist Yoga thread 2013.

 

That seems to indicate as Yang Jwing Ming says in that pdf link - the wind path is dominant during the day - the Conception channel - maybe that's the wind path actually. Then the fire path (Governor channel) is dominant at night - and so the tongue position is switched according to offset the dominance. I'll look into it.

 

So far I find Yang Jwing Ming saying to keep the tongue against the roof of the mouth at all times to create "heavenly water" that will guide the fire energy down to the lower tan tien - to cool the body. Sounds good to me. Otherwise the yin and yang are not connected and the mouth will get parched, throat scratchy, coughing, etc.

 

 

 

'dawei', on 05 July 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

So I am now thinking these tongue positions are specific to the MCO path and not to organ associations as I know the positions.

In our system, the MCO is practiced going up the governing vessel and down the conception vessel.
The position of the tongue is not related to the specific path in this system.
Rather, it is held in the "water" position to facilitate optimal generation of the "golden elixir" which is then used in transforming the Jing to Qi.
As Dawei mentioned, this is just our system.
There are many variations on the basic theme.

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/24056-microcosmic-orbit-tongue-position/page-2

 

so 2012 MCO thread - saying golden elixir held in water position....

 

so that kind of answers the question of why Taoist Yoga would use the water position - in the back of the mouth....and it brings it back to the golden elixir topic of this thread. I'll stop there - with the golden elixir focus on the normal path of the MCO.

[JinlianPai]

There is a "wind path" thread on this forum -

 

So I looked it up and Yang Jwing Ming actually refers to the central channel energy for the water path and says it's a very advanced technique only after the lower tan tien is full of energy.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=0FOuAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT40&lpg=PT40&dq=wind+path++Yang+Jwing+Ming&source=bl&ots=Hyomlcb8Yp&sig=HWTugts_QZvUg99avs4aQKAL0xg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TdgNVc-nGsyrgwSN5oPwDw&ved=0CFkQ6AEwCw

 

googlebook link on Yang Jwing Ming discussing wind path and water path.

 

Transmitting energy to people via the reverse path - is actually discussed in Taoist Yoga - they don't call it the reverse path but I have seen in my Taoist Sourcebook that indeed the most common form of sickness is the small universe going in reverse.

 

Because as Taoist Yoga details - the yin qi energy from the heart's fire goes in reverse up and out of the eyes.

 

The small universe goes in the direction it does - down the front - because the prenatal vitality of the pineal gland increases the spirit light and the heart's fire as qi energy so that it creates the lower tan tien as the cavity of spirit-vitality.

 

When you have the qi go down the back channel this is due to evil thoughts triggering the pineal gland to shoot qi down to create fluid and then the yin qi goes up the front and out of the eyes - as the reverse small universe - so you do transmit energy to other people but it is just "yin qi" energy and meanwhile you burn up your yuan qi by it being used to create fluid out of the yin jing energy of the cavity of vitality below the lower tan tien.

 

Certainly it will lower kundalini energy because you are losing energy by transmitting it out of the eyes.

 

This is actually the opposite of creating the lower tan tien but it is the most common reason for failing in the training because the training increases the yin qi energy and as heart's fire it easily goes up the front channel and out of the eyes - twinkling of the eyes at forms of love - as Taoist Yoga says - the training excites the very passions that it is has to quiet in order to increase the PreNatal Vitality energy from the Emptiness - the immutable thought concentration that activates the pineal gland.

 

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,20963.msg207018.html

 

This source claims its the water path that uses the central channel - to separate the water chi by going up the center and down the front. But as Yang Jwing Ming emphasis it is this water path that is the secret to Bone Marrow washing for advanced immortality training to convert the jing energy into qi.

 

so now I search water path gold immortality.

 

 

 

pdf link

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ymaa.com%2Ffiles%2FISBN0673sample.pdf&ei=xOANVcWtFYOxggTr5IG4DQ&usg=AFQjCNF_E9Rv-x_v9NY8hO_H0JGnKVNEQQ&sig2=Ym2MKUu6uWgFhHSQQhHmhQ

 

So then this question was asked:

 

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/28582-taoist-yoga-discussion-thread/page-4

 

Taoist Yoga thread 2013.

 

That seems to indicate as Yang Jwing Ming says in that pdf link - the wind path is dominant during the day - the Conception channel - maybe that's the wind path actually. Then the fire path (Governor channel) is dominant at night - and so the tongue position is switched according to offset the dominance. I'll look into it.

 

So far I find Yang Jwing Ming saying to keep the tongue against the roof of the mouth at all times to create "heavenly water" that will guide the fire energy down to the lower tan tien - to cool the body. Sounds good to me. Otherwise the yin and yang are not connected and the mouth will get parched, throat scratchy, coughing, etc.

 

 

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/24056-microcosmic-orbit-tongue-position/page-2

 

so 2012 MCO thread - saying golden elixir held in water position....

 

so that kind of answers the question of why Taoist Yoga would use the water position - in the back of the mouth....and it brings it back to the golden elixir topic of this thread. I'll stop there - with the golden elixir focus on the normal path of the MCO.

 

 

Well there is a few points missing here.

 

I think my practice is a little higher level than what you will find in a Yang Jwing Ming book.

 

Plus the mco runs in both directions. Just depends on the breathing reverse breathing it goes up the back normal breathing down the front. your orbit just has to be open.

 

Also your talking about a mechanical method and not a natural spontaneous one im not running the mco backwards.

 

There are different aspects here at work. I was describing the golden light energy in my practice.

 

1. The elemental nature of the energy which is important it naturally flows that way to the kidneys to nurture it then to the ldt.

Edited March 21, 2015 by JinlianPai

[phore]

I was looking through Mantak Chias Awaken Healing Light of the Tao

 

In the Later chapters It begins discussing drawing energies from different external sources.  Here are the correspondences Chia draws:

 

The light of the soul is originally clear and manifests in different colors as it moves through creation.

 

The Golden Light is the Higher Self, or the cosmic force. 

 

The the violet light is the pole star, the gateway of heaven, the universal force, and unconditional love.

 

The red light with the generative force of the earth and the constellation the big dipper.

 

Human sexual energy is pink.

 

The energy of the bone marrow and spine is white.

 

The earths water and plant energies are blue-green.

 

Black is the color of unborn Tao, void, and wu chi.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Concerning the reversal of the flow of the microcosmic orbit I have been presented with many different opinions of it. 

 

In KAP it is used to cool down the inner fire and reduce Kundalini syndrome.

 

In Yang Jwing Mings work it cools the inner fire.

 

The correspondance in Taoist Yoga Drew noted, concerning the dispersal of energy through the eyes, and the reversal of the Kundalini process of sublimating sexual energy into shen.  This indicates that the  process running backwards is creating a shen-chi-jing flow instead of a jing-chi-shen flow. 

 

Swami Lakshman Joo of Kashmir Shiavism notes a type of kundalini that occurs where the energy flows from the crown downwards to the root.  This is considered gods way of punishing unlucky yogis.  The recipients of this reverse kundalini find their energy flowing outwards into sensual delusions.  This seems to correspond to what drew noted in the Taoist Yoga. 

 

Then there is the backwards flow JinlianPai mentioned where the energy flows down the back to nurture the kidney chi and lower dantien.  This actually sounds to me like a positive perspective of some of the effects of the backwards flow, that are sometimes viewed negatively.   It sounds like you may have a method of storing the created kidney jing in the LDT, as opposed to letting it flow out the eyes and genitals.  I may be misunderstanding you though.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

According to Yang Jwing Ming, his books are a synthesis of many Chinese documents that are no longer available.  In his story he visited china before the government began repressing qigong information and found many qigong documents on sale in a big city.  He went on a shopping spree buying up as many of these documents as he could and took them back to America.  He then proceeded to  study them over a period exceeding ten years, and started trying to put the information in these documents into a series of books. 

 

Whether we recognize yang Jwing Ming as a high level qigong practitioner or not, a compilation or rare qigong documents can be a very valuable resource.

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Concerning vortexes and implosion:

 

I have to agree with drew that implosion causing purple lights is one of the most interesting suggestions in that video.  In fact Ive often thought that Lightning bolts looked like energetic vortexes while watching thunderstorms.  

 

My question then is how does the vortex or implosion form as a result of the proposed Golden elixer techniques (eg Microcosmic orbit, or awareness/ zazen) 

 

I wonder if this relates to Vajra Yoga (Lightning Path)

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Concerning the alleged danger of the water path, I own Dr Yangs book Qigong: The secret of youth  He states that the primary concern of danger with the water pasth is that the chi enters into the brain and may cause permanent damage. 

 

This simply sounds like a general warning on the dangers of raising the Kundalini without proper training (Kundalini Syndrome). 

 

If we are talking about actually sublimating Jing into chi into shen (like in Taoist Yoga),  then we have to bring the energy into the brain.

 

Then I am in agreement with drew that the Heavenly pool position is a good recommendation.

 

In Mantak Chias Taoist Secrets of Love He notes that when the sexual energy opens the golden flower at the crown chakra, the secretions of the pineal gland flow downwards in the saliva.  The heavenly pool position stimulates the flow of saliva, allowing practitioners to get the most out of this substance. 

 

------------------------------------------------

Does anyone understand the passage in Taoist Yoga that speaks of creating a polarity between the light of vitality in the LDT and the with the light in the Upper dantien?

----------------------------------------

Thanks for your responses everyone.

 

Love and Light

Tony

Edited March 22, 2015 by phore