Wang Liping Low Level?

[KenBrace]

Oh, for sure, it could be just as you say.

 

But everything in the bio speaks of his training to only use power in deep and sincere connection to dao.

 

 

 

Perhaps this is just a lie to gain attention and money?

Perhaps the story of Wang Liping giving all his earnings to his masters even after they refused the gift was also a falsehood.

 

Believe what you will, anything is possible.... but trust your heart. Often when we ask the heart, it is is the ego that answers. Be clear on where your answers come from. And remember: the ego is simply afraid of change; when we allow ourselves to dissolve the ego, allow ourselves to grow and change, we find that much of what the ego warned us against was only to prevent its own death.

 

"Trust your heart" is bad advice in my opinion. You should trust login and reason, not your heart. We have religion because people trust their hearts. We have delusion because people trust their hearts. If more people used reason instead of feelings to determine the truth then we'd be in a better world.

[voidisyinyang]

I read the biography and it matched perfectly the training that Chunyi did.

 

The first thing Wang Liping had to do was 4 hours of nonstop full lotus without any movement at all.

 

Can anyone on this forum do that?

 

Then yin-yang water is featured in the book for storing energy for healing. Chunyi also uses this method.

 

Wang Liping also levitated during his training. Chunyi also did this.

 

Wang Liping went back to "normal" life but he spends half his night in full lotus meditation. So does Chunyi.

 

Finally Wang Liping says to restore your Yuan Qi you need 6 hours of full lotus meditation a day - on a hard surface.

 

That completely makes sense - Chunyi says if you want to see if someone is a real master just see how long they can sit in full lotus in ease.

 

As for the cost - students from Wang Liping's seminar seem to report fast results and so they are receiving energy.

 

There have been some of these testimonials posted online - that I've already posted on thetaobums.

 

There are past threads on this.

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/22053-grand-master-wang-liping-ten-day-private-intensive/page-4

 

yeah that thread.

 

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/jan/13/notes-chinese-cave/

 

that thread only has that link as a review of a retreat of Wang Liping - but pretty superficial.

 

Oh I remember now - I was thinking if Master Zhang. Oops.

 

Anyway I would say you will get out of it what you put into it.

 

The teacher can only give you energy at a level that you are able to handle it - your mind.

 

To do that you have to build the foundation of the lower tan tien.

 

Like I did 6 hours of meditation - 4 to 6 a day before the LEvel 3 retreat of Chunyi - 15 years ago.

 

ONly then could I see him creating multiple yin spirits to heal people and also I could see dead people float into the room to get healed by Chunyi.

 

But that was only because my energy was very purified. I even fasted a week before hand - just taking a half glass of water.

 

I wanted to be prepared for his teachings.

 

I had practiced celibacy for months and had been on a vegan/vegetarian diet for 15 years and I was 29 years old.

 

You want "reliable" testing - my take is Wang is using a religious perspective from organized Taoism.

 

The Yan Xin science tests of qigong are being done through Harvard in the West.

 

Chunyi did science test through the Mayo Clinic.

 

But even still the skeptics claim that the medical doctor fell prey to placebo effect! Hilarious.

 

Skeptics will do anything to be in denial - unless they have a mass replicated consumer product.

 

You can do that in qigong - de facto - since by definition it's based on a non-dual consciousness that we are all part of - it's inherently interactive.

[KenBrace]

That completely makes sense - Chunyi says if you want to see if someone is a real master just see how long they can sit in full lotus in ease.

 

 

There might be some truth to that. But I guess we'd have to define "master". Buddhist monks can sit in full lotus for hours but they're aren't masters of inner power. They are, however, masters of mindfulness. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by KenBrace

[MooNiNite]

There might be some truth to that. But I guess we'd have to define "master". Buddhist monks can sit in full lotus for hours but they're aren't masters of inner power. They are, however, masters of mindfulness. 

 

 

Ken,

you think there is a separation?

 

 

 

I read 

 

 

What do you think INnerSOundqigong? Is there a separation?

[gendao]

As I read it, this thread is an effort to collect agreement with your psychic (the basis for your position) and therefore agreement with your assessment. You seem frustrated with those who express a different perspective and then ask them to try looking at it from different perspectives (which I presume means from yours?)

1) MooNiNite hero-worships Wang Liping.

2) He really wants to go to his first US seminar in LA...

3) But, he can't afford the price of admission.

4) Rather than taking responsibility for increasing his self-worth and becoming more prosperous to afford (feel worthy of) his dreams...it's much easier to simply cry sour grapes and hope to discredit Wang LIping at this point - so he can convince himself of why it "wasn't worth" going to anyways...

5) The alternative - that Wang Liping really is that awesome - would be even more depressing because then he would realize that he really IS missing out!!!

6) So ultimately, this whole thread thus isn't even about Wang Liping, but MooNiNite's own insufficient self-worth.

7) This underscores the importance of psychology in life in general and particularly, spiritual cultivation...

 

In effect, this is no different than:

1) Boy crushes on hot chick.

2) Hot chick refutes boy.

3) Boy now starts finding fault with "formerly" hot chick, lol...

Edited June 3, 2015 by gendao

[KenBrace]

Ken,

you think there is a separation?

 

Most certainly yes.

 

Mindfulness is simply training the mind to have more control over itself. It teaches the mind to be aware of its inner workings.

 

Inner power develops physical energy within the body which gives rise to the kinds of abilities demonstrated by John Chang.

Edited June 3, 2015 by KenBrace

[Taomeow]

No damming intended.

 

Good.  Whatsoever was intended, will return thrice.  If it was a blessing, you will be blessed to the extent of its power, times three. 

[Taomeow]

cool some random person agreeing with another psychic saying another psychic is full of crap. Wow that's really helpful!

 

more circles?

 

I am not a "psychic" (whatever that means -- I am a taoist and we don't have the term nor the definition, anymore than calling someone a "scientist" gives her credentials in physics if she is a Ph.D. in  applied linguistics -- the term is too broad to have any specific meaning unless you are qualified to specify what the scientist under scrutiny does and what the psychic under scrutiny does).  I am, however, one of master Wang Liping's first Western students, so for purposes of this thread I am not a "random person."  Nice to meet you too.  

[JohnC]

I am not a "psychic" (whatever that means -- I am a taoist and we don't have the term nor the definition, anymore than calling someone a "scientist" gives her credentials in physics if she is a Ph.D. in  applied linguistics -- the term is too broad to have any specific meaning unless you are qualified to specify what the scientist under scrutiny does and what the psychic under scrutiny does).  I am, however, one of master Wang Liping's first Western students, so for purposes of this thread I am not a "random person."  Nice to meet you too.  

 

Do you still practice longmen pai?

[doc benway]

I had a psychic friend of mine do a reading on Wang Liping, he basically told me that he was of low attainment. This astonished me. But my friend has been quite accurate about myself and others in the past. 

 

So now im curious, who has witnessed his abilities?

I understand people pay 4,000$ for a seminar but do they witness anything extraordinary?

 

Beyond his descriptive autobiography, what qualifies him as a high level teacher?

 

 

 

Thank you,

 

Moon

 

I think it's a fair bet that the lineage holder of the Dragon Gate sect is at high enough a level of cultivation that you could learn something valuable from him. Even if he has not reached a level that you would consider adequate, he certainly has the knowledge and the authority to teach the system. Relying on a self-proclaimed psychic and anonymous strangers on the internet to pass judgement on such an individual does not seem like the best approach to evaluating a potential teacher. If you are serious about your cultivation and finding the right teacher, I would suggest alternative ways of going about it. 

[Daeluin]

"Trust your heart" is bad advice in my opinion. You should trust login and reason, not your heart. We have religion because people trust their hearts. We have delusion because people trust their hearts. If more people used reason instead of feelings to determine the truth then we'd be in a better world.

 

Only approaching from logic cuts of the connection to the whole. We can easily see this simply in how scientific methods can't explain or validate qi and spitituality. They're getting closer, but can't quite understand that to really connect to the whole, you can't remain attached to who you think you are, what you think you know.

 

If you want to become a scientist, great, follow the path of logic.

 

But if you want to become a master - if you want to enter the gate of life and death and see your true self in the seven suns - if you want to connect your true center to the center of all, if you want to return to the dao - then you need to kill your ego and all the logical things it thinks it knows. Your soul should not be owned by your egoic attachments.

 

That said, extreme changes can result in a momentum where one flips back and forth between extremes, and that doesn't help either. So a logical approach to surrender, using gradual progress, is what I would advise. Some people like diving into the water all at once, they find it refreshing. Others prefer to slip in gradually, seamlessly. Follow your own way.

[KenBrace]

Only approaching from logic cuts of the connection to the whole. We can easily see this simply in how scientific methods can't explain or validate qi and spitituality. They're getting closer, but can't quite understand that to really connect to the whole, you can't remain attached to who you think you are, what you think you know.

 

If you want to become a scientist, great, follow the path of logic.

 

But if you want to become a master - if you want to enter the gate of life and death and see your true self in the seven suns - if you want to connect your true center to the center of all, if you want to return to the dao - then you need to kill your ego and all the logical things it thinks it knows. Your soul should not be owned by your egoic attachments.

 

That said, extreme changes can result in a momentum where one flips back and forth between extremes, and that doesn't help either. So a logical approach to surrender, using gradual progress, is what I would advise. Some people like diving into the water all at once, they find it refreshing. Others prefer to slip in gradually, seamlessly. Follow your own way.

 

I disagree with all of this. "Following your heart" will lead you down a path of delusion, disinformation, and falsehood. You need to follow reason.

 

Does X practice claim to accomplish the results I want?

 

Does X practice has good evidence supporting its claim?

 

If yes, then train using that system's methods. Spirituality and logic are not separate. 

[Taomeow]

Do you still practice longmen pai?

 

Yes.  And never once did I look for "attainment," that's not what I'm in it for.

 

It's like a bridge over troubled waters.  Like a subtle breeze that keeps your inner world well-ventilated.  Like having a secret room where all is familiar and yet something will always surprise you -- a gift someone left for you there anonymously, something that will make you chuckle -- oh, that...  I didn't expect that.  Thank you...   

Edited June 3, 2015 by Taomeow

[Brian]

I disagree with all of this. "Following your heart" will lead you down a path of delusion, disinformation, and falsehood. You need to follow reason.

 

Does X practice claim to accomplish the results I want?

 

Does X practice has good evidence supporting its claim?

 

If yes, then train using that system's methods. Spirituality and logic are not separate. 

So, on this basis, what are the specific results you personally want to accomplish and what is the irrefutable evidence that the system or teacher you have chosen to train under provides those results to its students?

 

I ask because I don't think you practice what you preach, even though I am certain you believe that you do.

[Daeluin]

I disagree with all of this. "Following your heart" will lead you down a path of delusion, disinformation, and falsehood. You need to follow reason.

 

Does X practice claim to accomplish the results I want?

 

Does X practice has good evidence supporting its claim?

 

If yes, then train using that system's methods. Spirituality and logic are not separate. 

 

If that works for you, great!

Best of luck on your way.

 

For me, too much logic holds me back from stepping into the flow. The truth lies between the lines - place a finger on something and you've lost the heart of things. The teachers I've been led to teach in subtle ways to help guide one to to this heart, without getting trapped by the mind.

 

I'm glad we all have our own ways.

[KenBrace]

So, on this basis, what are the specific results you personally want to accomplish and what is the irrefutable evidence that the system or teacher you have chosen to train under provides those results to its students?

 

I ask because I don't think you practice what you preach, even though I am certain you believe that you do.

 

Picture Albert Einstein before he had put together his Theory of Relativity. He saw a grand horizon that would change our outlook on the universe. I suppose you could say that he found what he did by "following his heart" but his heart was to use logic and reason to figure out problems. In the same way you could say that I'm following my heart by practicing Mo Pai. But I'm not only following my heart. I'm looking at it from a rational basis.

 

What are the results I want? I know that there is a larger aspect to reality that I've been completely blind to my entire life. It's something big and I intend to find out exactly what is going on. This is also related to death. My goals may evolve as I learn new things but I'm like a scientist on the verge of a new discovery. Depending on what the scientist discovers, he may change some aspects of his life.

 

Why do I think Mo Pai is the path to take? Because John Chang is the only high level master I've seen that can demonstrate abilities under the scrutiny of skeptics like he did. I've reviewed the footage thoroughly and have looked into the various illusions that could have been used. There is simply no way that he faked those demonstrations.

Edited June 3, 2015 by KenBrace

[Wells]

.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Wells

[Brian]

Picture Albert Einstein before he had put together his Theory of Relativity. He saw a grand horizon that would change our outlook on the universe. I suppose you could say that he found what he did by "following his heart" but his heart was to use logic and reason to figure out problems. In the same way you could say that I'm following my heart by practicing Mo Pai. But I'm not only following my heart. I'm looking at it from a rational basis.

 

What are the results I want? I know that there is a larger aspect to reality that I've been completely blind to my entire life. It's something big and I intend to find out exactly what is going on. This is also related to death. My goals may evolve as I learn new things but I'm like a scientist on the verge of a new discovery. Depending on what the scientist discovers, he may change some aspects of his life.

 

Why do I think Mo Pai is the path to take? Because John Chang is the only high level master I've seen that can demonstrate abilities under the scrutiny of skeptics like he did. I've reviewed the footage thoroughly and have looked into the various illusions that could have been used. There is simply no way that he faked those demonstrations.

What you are saying, then, is that your desire is to understand exactly what is going on in the universe and the proof that Mo Pai will get you there is an episode in a BBC program in which he lit a light bulb and pushed a chopstick through a crack in a table? I'm not doubting John Chang's legitimacy but that is in no way proof of his understanding of all the mysteries of the universe OR of his/MoPai's ability to teach it to you, even if we assume the video to be something more than parlor tricks.

 

You choose to believe the video is proof of something, and even to believe that it is "scientific proof" -- but that is just your own personal belief system. See the problem there? Until there is a clinical analysis or repeatable scientific experiment -- which there isn't in this particular case -- there is no "proof" (and even then we would start to have a discussion about the scientific method and what science "knows...")

 

This has been the source of the tension all along -- not any sort of repudiation of Mo Pai or John Chang at all but a problem with the categorical assertion of "proof" where none exists and the corollary assertion that everything lacking this identical "proof" is necessarily fraudulent. You are free to believe what you wish but don't expect others to buy into your beliefs.

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[MooNiNite]

Wang Liping's methods for inner power and ascension are accurate. 

[thelerner]

Guys, I think any mention of a high level master is going to draw criticism (somewhat repetitive ones) from Zoom and Ken Brace because they believe any master who is not Mo Pai is probably a fraud.   Its a creed that not only has to be repeated in any thread about masters, but several times in each thread.

 

If they studied an art that didn't specifically ban there race and nationality I wonder if they'd be so vigilant against other styles and masters?

[Rocky Lionmouth]

And here i went and thought a masters true ability was to teach someone in a way and method that suits that disciple so they might build upon the transmission and further their own learning even when their master is gone.

 

What is there to achieve really?

[Brian]

Well, there are not only John Chang's power demo vids,

there are also Jim's.

And (not only in my opinion) Jim is one of the most honest and straight-forward persons I ever had contact with,

so I also don't doubt the legitimicy of his video demos (yes, there are more than one).

So, Jim besides JC is obviously proof that Mo Pai "can get people there".

 

Also, why do you seem to suggest that Ken only relies on some videos about Mo Pai masters?

I don't read you taking into consideration that he was perhaps already able to experience first hand proof in himself?

Frankly, Jim's videos are even less "scientifically convincing" than John's. Again, not suggesting I have any reason to doubt his integrity or veracity or accomplishments -- I am willing to assume everything is "as presented" -- I'm just pointing out that there is nothing even vaguely resembling "proof" here.

 

As to the idea Ken has first hand experience and why am I discounting it -- I am using HIS criteria, his basis for logical proof, as the standard against which to measure in order to demonstrate that he fails his own test and therefore should exercise caution in holding others to that same standard.

[healingtouch]

What exactly was the question your psychic asked his guides to find out how advanced Wang Liping is?

 

Because being able to light papers on fire and other displays of abilities to manipulate qi does not make one spiritually advanced? All that proves is that one is a qi gong master, and there are many qi gong masters with advanced capabilites who would register as being low level spiritually because they lack any compassion and willingness to serve, and all they care about is how many followers they have or their level of fame and material possessions (material possessions include martial arts and energy manipulation skills and levels as well).

[KenBrace]

What you are saying, then, is that your desire is to understand exactly what is going on in the universe and the proof that Mo Pai will get you there is an episode in a BBC program in which he lit a light bulb and pushed a chopstick through a crack in a table? I'm not doubting John Chang's legitimacy but that is in no way proof of his understanding of all the mysteries of the universe OR of his/MoPai's ability to teach it to you, even if we assume the video to be something more than parlor tricks.

 

You choose to believe the video is proof of something, and even to believe that it is "scientific proof" -- but that is just your own personal belief system. See the problem there? Until there is a clinical analysis or repeatable scientific experiment -- which there isn't in this particular case -- there is no "proof" (and even then we would start to have a discussion about the scientific method and what science "knows...")

 

This has been the source of the tension all along -- not any sort of repudiation of Mo Pai or John Chang at all but a problem with the categorical assertion of "proof" where none exists and the corollary assertion that everything lacking this identical "proof" is necessarily fraudulent. You are free to believe what you wish but don't expect others to buy into your beliefs.

 

First off there is no such thing as "proof". There is only evidence to support claims. You cannot easily shrug off what Chang demonstrated unless you simply don't want to believe it. It's enough for any reasonable person to say "Wait a second. There's something going on that can't be accounted for." I've investigated the practice enough by now to know from personal experience that it's not just more newage non-sense.

 

Wang Liping does not have the same credibility as Chang. Where are the demonstrations of his students? Where is a video of him performing his feats while under the scrutiny of skeptics? We have nothing. Only books and anecdotes. 

 

Believing in Liping takes a leap of faith. There is evidence for Chang's legitimacy so it's not blind faith.