Moderation on TDBs

[KenBrace]

This adds to the thinking you're MPG's puppet.

 

A lot of your posts are very similar to Brian's. 

 

Are you Brian's puppet? 

 

Or perhaps Brian is your puppet?  

Edited November 30, 2015 by KenBrace

[Nungali]

[dawei]

Just lost my response... so will respond here:

 

I honestly don't see why we can't come to a comprimise here. 
 
The only reason stuff like this starts is because some of the members here post derogatory/condescending remarks about our community in Mo Pai threads.

 

I think there is a degree of truth to this but it doesn't touch the insulting language launched against this site.  But as that is not your website, I won't comment more on that.   So the real reason some of this occurs may be out of both of our control.

 

 

 Some newbie pops up here and asks for help regarding Mo Pai. Nothing wrong with that. Wells and I might stop by the thread to offer our $0.02 in a sincere attempt to help the person. You guys are free to do the same. If you don't think that Mo Pai is a valid path then there's nothing wrong with expressing this opinion. But that's not usually what happens. Typically certain members here who have a grudge against us will jump at the opportunity to slander our group. Stuff like this...

 

Neikung, on 15 Nov 2015 - 18:39, said:

Sabretooth, please do yourself a favor and stop practicing the so called "Mopai" exercises obtained from the web/books.  There are so many mistakes that can really harm you.  It is WISHFUL thinking that one can practice neigong without a real teacher to check in person (i.e. DON'T believe More_pie_guy or  Kenbrace).  In fact, the "sign" of progress in in the palm you have mentioned above is actually a sign of very bad thing. In Chinese, this is called Zou Huo Ru Mo.  走火入魔。 I am posting this so that hopefully no one gets hurt.

 

Neikung has posted 80 posts in 8 years.  I personally don't think this was meant as an insult but a warning; that to properly check a student's progress, the teacher/master needs to be at a proper level himself.  How else can they be qualified to check a student?   This is a simple fact that most folks overlook.  I can attest to having benefited several times from someone qualified to not just check but fix (and I mean energetic fix) something I had done incorrectly in forms/practice, etc.

 

 

That post is what started this whole thing. Posts like that almost always occur in Mo Pai threads here.

 
What are the members here hoping to accomplish?
 
Do they enjoy 100 page Mo Pai flame wars?
 
In the above post Neikung was essentially calling us out. Is it really that surprising that we would hop in to defend ourselves?
 
The solution here is to simply avoid condescending posts like that. Don't drag western Mo Pai and it's enthusiasts through the dirt. If this were enforced then debates like this would not occur.

 

It is in people's nature to slow down when passing a car wreak too... so it is not just Mo Pai flame wars which attract attention but it is one of the top ones.

 

I think reactions on both sides have been a bit extreme and the solution would be for folks to just keep driving on.

 

I know that the majority here does not believe that the moderation on TDBs is biased but please consider this.

 

Back a couple years ago I posted something in a Stillness Movement thread. It wasn't a direct, personal insult or anything. It was a joke about SM. I forget exactly what I said but it was something like... "Will any prostate massages be given?". There was some sort of video we had seen where Lomax was doing some sort of treatment on a student and at one point it looked like a prostate massage. It was pretty funny to be honest. It was tossed around on Mo Pai Debate a lot as a joke. Well, anyway I posted that joke in a SM thread and was immediately PMed by like two mods telling me to edit the post ASAP. Brian, who was a mod at the time (is he still?), quickly told me in the thread to change the post or I'd get suspended. 

 

Ok, so perhaps I was in the wrong on that one. Posting a crude joke like that in a serious thread about a SM seminar wasn't really appropriate.

 

But here's the catch. If people post the same kind of stuff in a Mo Pai thread then no one seems to care. People can throw around jokes about wires up the ass, tell people to ignore us since we're ignorant, etc. and no one bats an eye. 

 

Is this not a double standard?

 

Neikung should have received the same sort of fast rebuke that I did in the SM thread. He should have been told that his post was inappropriate like I was. Then he should have been told to remove the insult like I was. Finally, if he refused to edit his post then he should be suspended like I would have been had I not cooperated.

 

This is hard to compare as yours was an off topic joke and his was a serious comment to the topic.  I understand if some took it negatively but I don't see any insult in it but a warning, similar to what I hear from teachers.  Yes, it was likely more personal than necessary but I don't see it as actionable.   He would have to comment on exactly what he meant. 

 

The biggest problem, IMO, is the intentional disruption to another's website.  As established members, it is completely reasonable for you and Wells to respond to posts but outright, false pretense for joining a forum to defend something taken as an insult is rarely rewarded as a noble undertaken.  Particularly if they show no regard for staff.  

 

I think the compromise can mostly be found in reasonable discussions.

[Chang]

The words of KenBrace describing his Neigong Forum.

 

 

"I currently run a neigong forum but it's a very tight community that is heavily moderated. We are very focused on serious discussion and don't want disruptions."

 

I do believe that this pretty well sums things up!

[soaring crane]

The words of KenBrace describing his Neigong Forum.

 

 

"I currently run a neigong forum but it's a very tight community that is heavily moderated. We are very focused on serious discussion and don't want disruptions."

 

I do believe that this pretty well sums things up!

 

 

I'm on the fence whether I should refer to it as double standards or hypocricy. Someone help me out here. Ken?

[thelerner]

A lot of your posts are very similar to Brian's. 

Are you Brian's puppet?      Or perhaps Brian is your puppet?  

You have literally written questions here and that were then immediately copied to More Pie's site, where he answers them with swearing and a temper tantrum.  That's happened a couple of times.   He seems to have used you several times as a..  sidekick.. stooge??

 

Brian and I have some strong political differences but I think our feelings on More Pie are similar.  I'm sure you'll me more colorful and demonstrative then Brian.  Want some examples?   Or should we let it rest?

 

 

addon> for example Brian might criticize More Pie by saying he's a bad role model, then give true but boring examples.  I on the other hand am way more colorful.  I say things like- He's a couple of nuts short of a squirrel- a cliche non-sequitur with a half twist.   Huge difference in style.

 

I

Edited December 1, 2015 by thelerner

[KenBrace]

You have literally written questions here and that were then immediately copied to More Pie's site, where he answers them with swearing and a temper tantrum.  That's happened a couple of times.   He seems to have used you several times as a..  sidekick.. stooge??

 

So what you are saying is that MPG fed lines to me, which I posted, and then he immediately replied to them on MPD?

 

How about... I expressed my opinion and then MPG (who follows these threads) posted his opinion on MPD?

Edited November 30, 2015 by KenBrace

[KenBrace]

The words of KenBrace describing his Neigong Forum.

 

 

"I currently run a neigong forum but it's a very tight community that is heavily moderated. We are very focused on serious discussion and don't want disruptions."

 

I do believe that this pretty well sums things up!

 

Sums things up how?

 

It's a forum for serious neigong/mopai enthusiasts who value objective evidence and critical thinking to back up their practices. People who demonstrate a lack of critical thinking skills or disregard the need for evidence are asked to leave. I don't like having to do this but I really don't see any other option. If the forum isn't moderated in this way then it will turn into a different sort of community than we have in mind.

 

That's the main reason I started the Qigong Forum. I want to have another similar community where everyone is welcome. That way if someone doesn't fit in at the Neigong Forum then they have another place they can go. I've also designed the site to fit the interests of most people in the spiritual community better.

[KenBrace]

I'm on the fence whether I should refer to it as double standards or hypocricy. Someone help me out here. Ken?

 

There's nothing wrong with a tightly moderated community. It's ok for a Christian forum to ban atheists who are against the grain of the community.

 

This is Sean's site. So if he says that the Mo Pai group doesn't create the sort of community that he wants then I see no problem with him kicking us out. He has the right to do that. 

 

But it's different when members who do not own the site, work their way into moderator positions and then bend the rules to ban the people who disagree with them.

[Nungali]

Ummm ... there is an obvious implication there .... cant you see it ? 

[KenBrace]

Ummm ... there is an obvious implication there .... cant you see it ? 

 

Yes, but let me hear you say it anyway so I can quote the post.

[Geof Nanto]

 

@ KenBrace

 

I currently run a neigong forum but it's a very tight community that is heavily moderated. We are very focused on serious discussion and don't want disruptions. However, I thought it would be nice to create a forum that is more relaxed and open. A forum that features very little moderation and allows anyone and everyone to share & discuss their practices, beliefs, and experiences. 

 

NOTE: Six months of premium membership FREE to the first 25 people who sign up and post an intro!

 

I know nothing of your forums and consequently have no opinion on their worth. However I don't like seeing any advertising for commercial ventures on Dao Bums. I'd like there to be a clear rule banning such posts.

[Daeluin]

Sean has entrusted the moderators here with making those sorts of decisions on his behalf. He's said before that he stands behind any of their decisions.

 

No one is making decisions about the Mo Pai community, just about the behavior of individual members.

 

If an individual member is banned and then another comes up from the same group, with the same message and the same debate, it is going to begin to look like the whole group is acting with one voice, and will develop a reputation like the one you are defending against.

 

But it becomes very clear that you are not interest in seeing this. I've seen many threads closed before they reach the course this one has, and feel that much tolerance is being exercised here. Personally I feel this thread has become a broken record, and it doesn't look like anything is going to change. So I am making my exit here.

 

Just a warning, but I've been following the hexagram moon cycle spoken of in the cantong qi, and tonight is hexagram 44, so I recommend we all be on the guard to preserve our energy, lest it unravel.

[Geof Nanto]

Just a warning, but I've been following the hexagram moon cycle spoken of in the cantong qi, and tonight is hexagram 44, so I recommend we all be on the guard to preserve our energy, lest it unravel.

 

I little unravelling can be a good thing for personal cultivation - allows us to see what's hidden within us; our own shadows. 

[thelerner]

So what you are saying is that MPG fed lines to me, which I posted, and then he immediately replied to them on MPD?

 

How about... I expressed my opinion and then MPG (who follows these threads) posted his opinion on MPD?

How about Mopie wrote a dozen or two posts against Lomax and you who have no reason to be against him wrote a somewhat nasty joke so you could be on Mopie's good side?  How is that?  

 

Because Lomax has a different opinion on yin qi then his, mopey went ballistic for months!,  dogging and trolling Lomax.   All because of a difference in interpretation.  Sad.  Very sad.  You jumped on Mopie's side to joke at Lomax's expense to brown nose. 

 

You don't want to believe it, but this is due to obnoxious behavior, nothing to do with Mo Pai.

Edited December 1, 2015 by thelerner

[Nungali]

Yes, but let me hear you say it anyway so I can quote the post.

 

I will quote a post instead , as I was beaten to it

 

Sean has entrusted the moderators here with making those sorts of decisions on his behalf. He's said before that he stands behind any of their decisions.

 

 

 

 

In other words Panda forum owner and mod does it.

 

TDBs forum owner and 'his' mods do it .

 

Its just that this forum is larger and needs people to help the owner, as he wants to be helped.

 

You can bark up at the tree but the cat is elsewhere. 

 

[Daeluin]

I little unravelling can be a good thing for personal cultivation - allows us to see what's hidden within us; our own shadows. 

 

Yes, I agree very much. In hexagram 18 there what is stirred up is brought into light so we can work on cleansing it in a contained environment. In hexagram 44 if things aren't held together there is a scattering of forces, and I find the lesson to be one of endurance.

 

I'm still learning about this new cycle; it is more subtle and new to me. Just after the full moon is another hexagram 44 dynamic, and I frequently see a lot of reactivity during these times, and not a lot of learning happening. Usually there is some trigger that sets everyone off. I had just noticed one of these triggers in my own life, and figured I might share a word here, but it's probably nothing.

[Marblehead]

My two day suspension from this thread is over.

 

That's all I have to say at the moment.

[dawei]

 

I know nothing of your forums and consequently have no opinion on their worth. However I don't like seeing any advertising for commercial ventures on Dao Bums. I'd like there to be a clear rule banning such posts.

 

I did talk with someone about historical issues regarding this.   Unless we deem this spamming or advertising for commercial purposes, it has been the position to let members put images in their signature.   

 

I do see that KenB slightly modified his signature and I appreciate that gesture. 

 

Sean did post this for folks to be able to write something about their website:

http://thedaobums.com/topic/37747-do-you-have-a-blog-or-a-website/

[Geof Nanto]

To clarify my previous comment....it wasn't the whole of KenB's signature I was objecting to, only his 'special offer' line highlighted in red. As he has kindly deleted this line, it's no longer an issue for me.

 

On the subject of signatures in general......Loud signatures aren't to my taste. I like the quiet, the subtle, the understated - but that's purely a personal preference; it's not something I'd want to hold others to. Indeed, as the saying goes, "variety is the spice of life."

 

As to the moderators on this site, I can only add my voice to those who have come to their defence. In fact, from what I've seen in my 9 months of membership, I can only praise the fairness, tolerance and openness they display in the many discussions on this forum addressing their actions. 

[Nungali]

My two day suspension from this thread is over.

 

That's all I have to say at the moment.

 

It must have been tough !  

[Marblehead]

It must have been tough !  

Hehehe.  Not really.  I've seen it all before.

[zerostao]

Ohhhh .... I dunno ... 

 

 

just a wild stab in the dark ... perhaps these guys ?

 

 

an enlightened looking bunch you gotta admit, notice they are not spouting off, bellittling anyone, insulting anyone, hating on mods,,i never visited panda gong site myself , i was a mod and could be talked about there as other mods are, idk and dont care, could care less in fact. not sure what happened with mo pai and mpg ? i really doubt any mo pai guys even ever read this stuff, if they did once long ago was probably enuff for them.

 

@more pie guy---this is how you choose to speak about mo pai and other systems on a public forum?

what are you thinking?

[dayzhaze]

an enlightened looking bunch you gotta admit, notice they are not spouting off, bellittling anyone, insulting anyone, hating on mods,,i never visited panda gong site myself , i was a mod and could be talked about there as other mods are, idk and dont care, could care less in fact. not sure what happened with mo pai and mpg ? i really doubt any mo pai guys even ever read this stuff, if they did once long ago was probably enuff for them.

 

@more pie guy---this is how you choose to speak about mo pai and other systems on a public forum?

what are you thinking?

 

I was asked to let you know Morepie has replied to you on the space panda forum.

[dayzhaze]

How about Mopie wrote a dozen or two posts against Lomax and you who have no reason to be against him wrote a somewhat nasty joke so you could be on Mopie's good side?  How is that?  

 

Because Lomax has a different opinion on yin qi then his, mopey went ballistic for months!,  dogging and trolling Lomax.   All because of a difference in interpretation.  Sad.  Very sad.  You jumped on Mopie's side to joke at Lomax's expense to brown nose. 

 

You don't want to believe it, but this is due to obnoxious behavior, nothing to do with Mo Pai.

 

The fact John Chang taught both Jim and Kosta they must be grounded to the earth to absorb yin chi, is not an opinion or an interpretation. Perhaps though John Chang was wrong, and Lomax was correct.  I don't brown nose Morepie, neither does Ken or Wells.  We are friends with Morepie, and share a common interest.