The Holy Spirit is not Kundalini - Daskalos

[MooNiNite]

In my personal experience, I would agree that the heart is more accurate related to what Jesus is describing in the gospel quote.

 

Also, as I stated above the concept of kundalini in the form of some disc (or stored energy) at the base of the spine does not exist in Christianity, Taoism or Buddhism to my knowledge; that is more of a Hindu concept.

 

Actually. 

 

It is a Tibetan Buddhist Concept

 

A Hermetic Concept

 

A Christian Concept

 

A Muslim Concept

 

A Taoist Concept

 

Whether or not the original Buddhist teachings had Chakras, is unclear to me though. 

 

Anyways, the list goes on. 

[Bindi]

You quoted this:

You are saying that the Spirit referred to here is the Holy Spirit.

According to Daskalos, the Holy Spirit is already inseparable from human beings.

 

I guess you didn't read that in the OP. Here it is again.

 

 

So, according to Daskalos, if you are alive, then you already have the Holy Spirit working for you. There would be no reason to receive the Holy Spirit as your quote implies. Therefore, the bible quote is incorrect or you have misinterpreted what is being said there as the Holy Spirit.

 

It is too bad that the bible is such a hodgepodge of indecipherable stories.

 

This "helper" might well be the Guardian Angel, as Daskalos mentions:

 

From Swimming With the Whale:

 

But then again, Daskalos says that everyone has a guardian angel. (My Bolding in the quote)

 

Therefore, why would someone have to receive something that they already have? They already have the Holy Spirit, and they already have a Guardian Angel, so why would Jesus have to pray to the Father to give another Helper to believers and maintainers of the commandments? This helper is obviously not the Holy Spirit and not the Guardian Angel, is it?

 

Looks to me to be like some form of spiritual blackmail that some wrote in the bible to make humankind have to obtain something through the church, something which they already have.

 

And, now, in your last post post, you admit that there is no mention of kundalini in the bible, as you said:

 

 

 

Therefore, are you admitting that you fabricated the claim that the Holy Spirit is kundalini?

 

Daskalos is saying that kundalini is found at the base of the spine, not the belly. It is a primordial fire that burns the etheric double. It causes death of the physical body. So, the Holy Spirit supports life, and the kundalini causes death. How far apart do they have to be before you quit trying to prove that the Holy Spirit and kundalini are the same by referring to "energy"?

 

Hi T_I, I think I figured it out, I gather Kundalini is synonymous with the Holy Spirit in Christian gnosticism, and being a Christian gnostic (amongst other things) Jeff is never likely to stop believing that they are the same thing. 

 

I had thought this before in relation to Malachi's beliefs, and though I started this line of enquiry previously in one of Jeff's threads I never got an answer from him and I let it go.

 

I was reminded of it today while reading Karen's quoted gnostic article, 'Christ and the Kundalini'  http://www.sol.com.au/kor/8_01.htm

Edited January 25, 2016 by Bindi

[rex]

Perhaps something has been lost in translation?

 

During my lunchtime reading I came across this snippet:

 

In Hebrew the word for Spirit is ruach which is feminine -  Ruach Elohim, the Spirit of God. Spirit translated into Greek is pneuma, which is gender neutral.

[Jeff]

Actually. 

 

It is a Tibetan Buddhist Concept

 

A Hermetic Concept

 

A Christian Concept

 

A Muslim Concept

 

A Taoist Concept

 

Whether or not the original Buddhist teachings had Chakras, is unclear to me though. 

 

Anyways, the list goes on. 

 

Could your give me a reference that describes Kundalini in the Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Taoist traditions?

[Jeff]

Hi T_I, I think I figured it out, I gather Kundalini is synonymous with the Holy Spirit in Christian gnosticism, and being a Christian gnostic (amongst other things) Jeff is never likely to stop believing that they are the same thing.

 

I had thought this before in relation to Malachi's beliefs, and though I started this line of enquiry previously in one of Jeff's threads I never got an answer from him and I let it go.

 

I was reminded of it today while reading Karen's quoted gnostic article, 'Christ and the Kundalini' http://www.sol.com.au/kor/8_01.htm]http://www.sol.com.au/kor/8_01.htm[/url]

Bindi - The above is not accurate and not at all what I believe. I do not understand why you feel the constant need to mis-characterize such things.

 

Our differences seem much more simple than that. As I have stated endless times, I find truth and value in the words of Jesus in the gospels, you and TI either seem to not believe the words of Jesus, say they are wrong/made up or see them as a "spiritual blackmail" scam.

 

You put your trust and faith in your mom and your dreams, I put my trust in Christ. Our difference of opinion is as simple as that.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Jeff

[9th]

 

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims,

and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

- Book of Genesis

[Bindi]

Bindi - The above is not accurate and not at all what I believe. I do not understand why you feel the constant need to mis-characterize such things.

 

Our differences seem much more simple than that. As I have stated endless times, I find truth and value in the words of Jesus in the gospels, you and TI either seem to not believe the words of Jesus, say they are wrong/made up or see them as a "spiritual blackmail" scam.

 

You put your trust and faith in your mom and your dreams, I put my trust in Christ. Our difference of opinion is as simple as that.

"Transmission is a component of many traditions, but it a major component of the inner (or mystical) aspects of the gnostic Christian tradition. Transmissions can be "sent" by divine beings and also masters or adepts of the tradition.

 

There are two main types of transmission. The lower form is at the level of the "mind" and is often called a mindtransmission. The higher form is at the level of the heart (or inner heart) and is often called a "light" transmission."

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/31514-transmission-in-christian-mysticism/#entry474399

 

Why should I not believe you are gnostic when you describe your transmission as in the gnostic Christian tradition?

 

Also you defer to the gnostic Malachi to answer my question.

Jeff, am I correct in thinking that you (like Malachi) see a Divine Mother 'above', where Jesus saw a Divine Father 'above'.

If so, I wonder why you/gnostic Christianity see it opposite to Christianity? Is it somehow dictated by the nature of your transmissions?

 

 

Hi Bindi,

 

Since you have stated that you prefer Tau Malachi's descriptions to mine, I thought that I would share this one with you to address some of your questions. While I personally find his style a little overly complex, the following post is excellent and gets to the heart of it all...

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/31514-transmission-in-christian-mysticism/page-11#entry655315

Also of course you quote the gnostic gospel of Thomas all the time. So quite simply I was led to believe you are gnostic, and TBH I'm surprised that you have disagreed, I thought you self identified as gnostic after reading Malachi. At least if I have assumed, there was a fairly solid basis upon which to hang my assumptions.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Bindi

[Jeff]

"Transmission is a component of many traditions, but it a major component of the inner (or mystical) aspects of the gnostic Christian tradition. Transmissions can be "sent" by divine beings and also masters or adepts of the tradition.

There are two main types of transmission. The lower form is at the level of the "mind" and is often called a mindtransmission. The higher form is at the level of the heart (or inner heart) and is often called a "light" transmission."http://thedaobums.com/topic/31514-transmission-in-christian-mysticism/#entry474399

Why should I not believe you are gnostic when you describe your transmission as in the gnostic Christian tradition?

Also you defer to the gnostic Malachi to answer my question.

 

Also of course you quote the gnostic gospel of Thomas all the time. So quite simply I was led to believe you are gnostic, and TBH I'm surprised that you have disagreed, I thought you self identified as gnostic after reading Malachi. At least if I have assumed, there was a fairly solid basis upon which to hang my assumptions.

 

Yes, as I have stated repeatedly, I consider the Gospel of Thomas an incredibly valuable (and experimentally accurate) text.

 

But, while I have no issue with someone being "gnostic", I do not find the label particularly helpful regarding my mystical Christian experience and beliefs. Gnostic traditions are based in a belief that the world was created and still controlled by some evil overlord (Demiurge). Additionally, they tend to have complicated magic based systems that support their framework. I do not agree with that or see the value in such an approach.

 

And, yes, I stand by all of my posts (and things like "transmission"), but don't consider the term gnostic particularly useful or accurate when discussing mystical Christianity.

[Jeff]

I did not say chakras, I said Kundalini...

[blue eyed snake]

Sacred Discs are depicted and referred to constantly when it comes to God realization.

 

Thank you mooninite, 

 

concerning the question whether being allowed to receive the holy spirit is the same as  kundalini. Well, that there both energetically in nature does not make them the same, neither in experience, nor in  the nature of ' what' they are/ represent.

 

i would say, ask someone who has experienced them both. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised when the answer is that they are different in ' quality/nature' and ( therefore) in experience. neither would i be surprised that someone who has experienced the grace from above would tell you that the light/energy flows out of your hands and , indeed, your belly,

 

love BES

 

and as an afterthought, somewhere on the forum is an interview with a christian monk ( i think) telling about this grace, but i cannot find it now, a link towards that post would be most appropiate

[Bindi]

Yes, as I have stated repeatedly, I consider the Gospel of Thomas an incredibly valuable (and experimentally accurate) text. But, while I have no issue with someone being "gnostic", I do not find the label particularly helpful regarding my mystical Christian experience and beliefs. Gnostic traditions are based in a belief that the world was created and still controlled by some evil overlord (Demiurge). Additionally, they tend to have complicated magic based systems that support their framework. I do not agree with that or see the value in such an approach. And, yes, I stand by all of my posts (and things like "transmission"), but don't consider the term gnostic particularly useful or accurate when discussing mystical Christianity.

 

I disagree that Mystical Christianity would ever be associated with light transmission or merging, or with any gnostic version of Jesus whatsoever. A Christian mystic would seek a direct personal relationship with Jesus, but through prayer and contemplation, probably through the Eucharist, probably as a renunciate, and perhaps through a Mystical Christian community. But a Christian Mystic who was drawn to light transmission and gnostic writings would surely renounce Christian mysticism in favour of Christian Gnosticism. Surely if it looks like a gnostic, and sounds like a gnostic, it probably is a gnostic. I understand you might be uncomfortable with some gnostic beliefs and practices, but you can’t just claim to be a mystical Christian when you actually practice gnostic Christianity.

 

You never quote Christian mystics, but only Christian gnostics, as well as Christian texts that you imagine refer to light bodies, and Buddhist texts that tend to refer to light bodies. You have a current thread about Light Bodies, and I referred earlier to your thread about transmission, these are all gnostic topics.

 

What do you think mystical Christian beliefs entail?

[Jeff]

 

I disagree that Mystical Christianity would ever be associated with light transmission or merging, or with any gnostic version of Jesus whatsoever. A Christian mystic would seek a direct personal relationship with Jesus, but through prayer and contemplation, probably through the Eucharist, probably as a renunciate, and perhaps through a Mystical Christian community. But a Christian Mystic who was drawn to light transmission and gnostic writings would surely renounce Christian mysticism in favour of Christian Gnosticism. Surely if it looks like a gnostic, and sounds like a gnostic, it probably is a gnostic. I understand you might be uncomfortable with some gnostic beliefs and practices, but you can’t just claim to be a mystical Christian when you actually practice gnostic Christianity.

 

You never quote Christian mystics, but only Christian gnostics, as well as Christian texts that you imagine refer to light bodies, and Buddhist texts that tend to refer to light bodies. You have a current thread about Light Bodies, and I referred earlier to your thread about transmission, these are all gnostic topics.

 

What do you think mystical Christian beliefs entail?

 

Once again, I do not understand your endless need to attempt to label my spiritual approach as "gnostic". If anyone is interested in my christian beliefs they can easily read my many, many posts on the topics.  While I completely agree that my beliefs are non standard "institutional", the term gnostic is just not useful and misleading. Also, if someone believes in some evil "demiurge", that is fine, it is just not something that I believe in.

 

And yes, I totally agree that a "Christian mystic would seek a direct personal relationship with Jesus". But, would a Christian mystic renounce the words of Jesus in the gospels?

[Edward M]

cheers

Edited January 26, 2016 by Edward M

[Jeff]

Just wiped out a long post i made accidentally  here goes again:

 

The Jewish Christians belief about holy spirit: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XbzpAukQIXgC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=lewis+keizer+holy+spirit&source=bl&ots=lxkTUTJ_vI&sig=-hMf7XZTTYB3uS_2XGtumberGCE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIkuehucXKAhXHXhoKHZ4WDzgQ6AEINTAE#v=onepage&q=lewis%20keizer%20holy%20spirit&f=false

 

are very much similar to Deskalos view, as outlined by TI, however Deskalos did not view Jesus as Jewish: http://www.researchersoftruth.org/mastering-the-mind

 

...

 

Thank you for your link above and post.  So we see that Daskalos is quoted teaching that Jesus was not Jewish, but actually some worshipper of some Egyptian god called Aton...

 

"Now, what you call Jesus, He and His family and most of His disciples were Essenes, they were not Jews. What were the Essenes? The Essenes appear in Egypt as descendants of the worshippers, Israelites and Greeks (in Egypt), believing in Aton, the one Spirit-God which the pharaoh Ankhenaton, breaking the idols, declared as the real God. For centuries there was a fight between the old religion of the gods, the idols, and the one God, the Spirit-God, the God of the heavens and of the earth."

 

Does the god Aton have anything to do with the Holy Spirit?

[Edward M]

Cheers

Edited January 26, 2016 by Edward M

[Jeff]

Jeff, i looked into that yesterday, Aton is the spiritual sun, or the light in esoteric systems, and not the physical sun, althouhg the physical sun is seen to be a symbol of of the love of the spiritual sun.  

 

Also, if you look at the symbol for aton, it's a sun disk with what looks like shooting flames out of it.  Well, to me, this is in line perfectly with pentecost, and the baptism of fire, that jesus speaks of in the gospel of thomas, whoever is close to me is close to the fire, and i have come to set the world ablaze and guard the fire.  

 

Cheers

 

So Aton that Daskalos followed was some sort of Sun god?  Similar to the concept of Ra?

[Edward M]

Cheers

Edited January 26, 2016 by Edward M

[Jeff]

Hi Jeff, no, Aton is the ultimate reality behind all phenomena that sustains Amen -Ra, who Aton replaced as the one worshipped for a short time, by the pharoah spoken of in the page i posted about Daskalos.  

 

Cheers

 

Cool. Thanks.  

[Edward M]

cheers

Edited January 26, 2016 by Edward M

[Andrei]

Mooninite, your post is spot on!

 

[Bindi]

...

 

"Fire I came to cast on the earth ... ,and would it were

already kindled."

(Luke 12,49)

 

"I Have thrown fire on the world and, behold, I am Guarding it until it is ablaze"

(The Gospel of Thomas, Saying 10)

 

"Whoever is close to me is close to the fire"

(Gospel of Thomas, Saying 80)

 

 

cheers

 

PSALM 78:21 When the Lord heard them, he was very angry; his fire broke out against Jacob, and his wrath rose against Israel

 

ISAIAH 66:16 For with fire and with his sword the Lord will execute judgment upon all men, and many will be those slain by the Lord.

 

Luke 12,49-51"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! 50"But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! 51"Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;…

 

LUKE 9:54-56 54When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?" 55But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; 56for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

[Bindi]

...

 

As far as transmission goes, it is present in both esoteric and mainstream christianity, when you pray to Christ or the Father, how do you think he/they communicate with you? either mind or energetically, where there is a connection beytween two beings of either mind or energy, there is going to be a transfer of energy and information, throiuhg synching.

 

Light Transmission is directly associated with kundalini energy flows, and a kundalini connection between two or more people is not prayer.

 

Prayer is not associated with kundalini, and Christ or the Father do not communicate with kundalini.

 

This whole argument is just so futile, Jeff's transmission has parked itself here and continues to be couched in holy words, both Christian and Buddhist, and those that fall for it will apparently defend his nonsense to the end. 

 

i've also got a book that is dedicated to the holy spirit being shiva, and it makes a good case as well.  as do all the other theories material i'be read.  

 

 my opinion is they are both linked and complimentary parts of the same process.  The downward can activate the upward.

 

 Then there is also the aspect of the holy spirit being a personal aspect of God.

 

 Holy Spirit can work through us and outside of us.  

 

To me it's all a mystery and we can't as simple humans in a physical body know God in all God's aspects, and the more we are humble enough to admit and accept this point, the more God will reveal him/herself to us. 

 

Cheers

[Jonesboy]

This topic isn't about light transmission. Nobody has brought up light transmission except you.

 

The topic is about kundalini and the Holy Spirit. You get so caught up making these same crazy off topic posts from thread to thread and you are the only one that constantly brings it up.

 

I mean thank you for acknowledging that it is real but enough already.

 

You posted in the light body thread to defend the historical view of Jesus. Well start defending against Daskalos and his view on things because they sure seem different to me.

 

Oh wait your friend wrote it so that is okay

Edited January 25, 2016 by Jonesboy

[Jonesboy]

Light Transmission is directly associated with kundalini energy flows, and a kundalini connection between two or more people is not prayer.

 

Prayer is not associated with kundalini, and Christ or the Father do not communicate with kundalini.

 

This whole argument is just so futile, Jeff's transmission has parked itself here and continues to be couched in holy words, both Christian and Buddhist, and those that fall for it will apparently defend his nonsense to the end.

Any of the eight limbs can activate kundalini. Bhakti, faith and prayer are very powerful.

 

.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Jonesboy

[Apech]

Jeff, i looked into that yesterday, Aton is the spiritual sun, or the light in esoteric systems, and not the physical sun, althouhg the physical sun is seen to be a symbol of of the love of the spiritual sun.  

 

Also, if you look at the symbol for aton, it's a sun disk with what looks like shooting flames out of it.  Well, to me, this is in line perfectly with pentecost, and the baptism of fire, that jesus speaks of in the gospel of thomas, whoever is close to me is close to the fire, and i have come to set the world ablaze and guard the fire.  

 

Cheers

 

Actually the Aton was a god worshiped exclusively in a short period at the end of the 18th Dynasty Egypt.  It is the visible sun as word Aton as a name comes from itn in Ancient Egyptian which actually means 'disk'.  The older gods Atum (the creator) and Re the sun as being represent the power behind the visible universe.  Aton worship was an early attempt at monotheism and it also, like Christianity later attempted to destroy the traditional religion of Egypt.   Luckily it only really lasted for the reign of one pharaoh Akenaton and then died out.